Ep. 89 | Navigating Technology and Family Economy with Intentionality with Rory Groves

In this episode, a discussion unfolds on the balance between adopting modern technology and maintaining strong family bonds. The script delves into the challenges and rewards of moving away from mainstream economic dependencies and focusing on sustainable family economies. Insights include the importance of discernment in technology use, the value of community and mentorship, and the practical steps to fostering family unity through entrepreneurship and self-sufficiency. The hosts also introduce a new publishing project inspired by 'Henry and The Great Society,' highlighting the impact of modern conveniences on traditional family structures.

Connect with Rory Groves

Gather & Grow Family Ministry: https://gatherandgrow.us

Kickstarter Campaign – Henry and the Great Society:https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gatherandgrow/henry-and-the-great-society (Available until Nov. 6)

The GroveStead Blog (Family Economy & Durable Trades): https://www.thegrovestead.com

Outline:

00:00 Introduction: Embrace Imperfection

00:25 The Podcasting Journey

00:35 Balancing Family and Media

00:59 The Real vs. Technological Advances

03:01 Henry and The Great Society

04:45 Reviving a Lost Classic

05:27 Gather and Grow Ministry

07:21 Kickstarter Campaign and Publishing Goals

10:42 Challenges in Christian Publishing

11:35 Long-Term Strategies for Family Economy

18:28 The AI Arms Race and Its Implications

27:27 Personal Reflections on Real Assets

29:46 The Importance of Discernment

30:35 Surviving the Jobs Apocalypse

31:41 Growing Your Own Food

33:12 Storing Up Without Stress

33:48 Embracing Change and Taking Action

34:30 Faith and Obedience in Uncertain Times

39:58 Building a Family Economy

44:54 Entrepreneurship and Education

46:52 The Journey of Publishing and Family Involvement

52:27 The Power of a United Family Vision

53:59 Conclusion and Call to Action

Transcript:

Rory Groves: [00:00:00]

you don't have to have it all figured out.

From the beginning, before you get started, you don't have to have analysis paralysis. You can just do one thing today with your family that unites your family, that's gonna bring you closer to something that's sustainable, that's going to survive whatever's coming, and it's gonna separate you and join you with other families who are doing the same things.

well welcome back to podcasting. I guess last time we chit chatted you weren't doing podcasts.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, I think I still have a, uh, I guess tenuous relationship with it. You can devote a hundred percent of your time to your children, to your wife and it, not be enough.

You know what I mean? True. But then the, also the reality is that this media can work on your behalf and on my behalf, round the clock. True. Or relatively cheaply. Yes. You know, so maybe, um. You know, [00:01:00] that'll be, that'll be the discussion that we have here because it's this, uh, tug of war between the analog or maybe the real, we could just say that.

The real mm-hmm. And then the, the make believe technological advances and things like that. So I think I still, I would say that it's a big topic, whatever the metric that I apply now is that. I want to talk to somebody about a subject that I particularly am curious about. All right? And I want to know what do I do?

How do I figure this out wise, men, women, people that are in my network? Why not record it? I wanna have the phone call anyway. I just call you up and say, Rory, help me out with ai. How do I, how do I figure out as I watch all these billions and billions of dollars that don't even, they really exist? Thrown into AI chips because it's [00:02:00] an arms race that will never end.

Rory Groves: Mm-hmm.

Nathan Spearing: How do I protect my family today with my time? I want to call you up and ask you that actual question, and why not hit record and let's not spend a lot of time editing and polishing, because if it's real issues that men on the ground are facing. As they intentionally try to shepherd their families, then just, you know, upload the audio file. Shoot it out there and let it, um, produce, but don't spend a whole lot of time, um, at least right now with the resources that I have trying to polish it.

Trying to just, just let the, the, the content, uh, and the, because that's the medium is people want to have a conversation and want, feel like they're there. So if you and I are really discussing this, this is stuff we're wrestling with, how do we do it?

Talk about what you're working on because that ties directly into it, like about that.

Oh, I know, that's, I'm [00:03:00] thinking.

Rory Groves: So the book, Henry and The Great Society, the, uh, in a nutshell, what it does, describes the breakdown of a family that had lived. A very, uh, integrated way of life for generations. This is a farm family, kind of in the 19, I think the book is set kind of the 1940s, 1950s. It's mid-Century America.

Mm-hmm. The author who wrote it lived this life and he watched his life. His community fall apart when all of the modern conveniences of modern society came to his hometown. And so this is, this is, it's a fictional story, but it's like a cautionary tale, Henry and the Great Society. Mm-hmm. And, and when you read it.

Um, what's, it's really thought provoking because, uh, you see the way, not only that it dismantles this community, that it meaning the technology, the prosperity, all these things that we kind of take for granted as part of modern [00:04:00] life. It's not only that it dismantles this community and more that it begins to dismantle this family.

It's that you see how the thought patterns about life and what is. What is the priority changes in these individual characters? Mainly Henry, who's the father of this family. You see how it begins to break down and wear on him, and he, he's kind of up against an in insert. He's, he's, he's out of his league, so to speak.

Mm-hmm. And so this book is, it was just like very thought provoking book. It actually did very well in its day. It was published in 1969. It had, it had some, um, uh, it had some following there, but it basically fell out a print kind of in the two thousands. And we discovered this book a couple years ago.

Someone had mentioned it. I looked it up. I found. You know, there's used copies still for sale and there's things like that, but it clearly was a very rough shot thrown together version. It wasn't a very well, well [00:05:00] produced version. And before I even read the book, I just had this sense of, uh, this is gonna sound crazy, but it's totally true.

But I just had this sense that we're, uh, my wife and I are gonna get into publishing someday, and this was gonna be the first book that we publish. I hadn't read a page. I just had this sense about it. So then I start reading this book. I end up stop reading it. I get the family together and I start reading it to them because it was everything.

So gather and grow as a ministry. Everything that we're trying to do is all about the family economy. We're trying to bring the family back together in a world that's pulled them apart. And so I'm reading this book and it's like, man, this is like exactly what has happened to the 20th century family and now 21st century family.

And I'm like, Becca, this speaks exactly to what we're trying to reverse as a ministry. Like we're trying to bring God back into the picture. We're trying to bring family back into economy. We're trying to do all of these things. And this book is speaking at it, but kind of in a very unique way because it's not just saying, Hey, let's all do this [00:06:00] thing.

It's saying, here's what can happen if we don't, if we're not intentional about this, here's how the slippery slope works. And so for us, we just saw it as like this would be an incredible tool to be able to put in people's hands to start the conversation. Mm-hmm. Begin to open people's eyes. And we hear that from people who we've come across that we mentioned that we're working on this book, we're gonna bring it back into print.

And we've heard from multiple, multiple people. Like I read this book and it changed my life. Or I, I've run into Amish families, dude Amish, who say I read this book every year just to keep me focused on the things that matter. And they're already not, you know, they're already opting out of most of what we're opting out of.

So it, they, they're, they're on that scale. They're pretty far to the, they're pretty far already. You think like, dude. It's just because of the entrapments of wealth and prosperity and all these things. It's just always in the water that we swim in right now. Mm-hmm. So, anyway, long story short, uh, we have taken this project [00:07:00] on and we, um, we were able to meet with the copyright owner.

I've got this great story about it. Um, I'm not gonna go into the details here. Right now, but this great storyline about how the Lord set up this appointment with the guy who owned the copyrights told 'em about what we were doing, and they're huge supporters of it, and they sold us the rights to republish this book.

And so here we are. We're in the middle of a campaign right now to try to raise funds. To publish the book and to try to open a whole publishing house behind the book because we really want to do much more than just one book. Of course, we want to bring out lots of stuff that's gonna help families rebuild the family economy, which is why we started gather and grow in the first place.

Awesome. Last time. That's not quite an elevator pitch, I guess,

Speaker 2: but I, you sent me the link and I posted it on my ex account, and when I looked at it, you guys had. Met the original goal. Yes. But I imagine that as the original goal gets met, that's kind of the minimum one. [00:08:00] Right. And, and the more that people get behind and support this, the more firepower there is to do other projects or is it, is that particular publishing gets to be That's right.

Bigger.

Rory Groves: Both. Both. So, so the minimum goal was like print black and white book and paper back and just get it out there into people's hands. And you know, you have to order certain multiple thousands of these to actually get a decent price to make it affordable. And so as we met the initial funding goal, which was early on in the campaign, to our delight, we have.

Other, like, they're called stretch goals on Kickstarter. So we have hard now the book, I'll tell you, we've hit a bunch of these stretch goals. So the book is gonna be printed in full color. I have an illustrator who's commissioned to do artwork for the book. Um, he's working on those projects right now. I have, um, it'll be a hardback cover.

Um, it'll have, um, we're, we're actually gonna be producing an audio book version of it now. Which was another stretch goal. So all of this is part of the package, but it's [00:09:00] only for if you pledge before November 6th. Well, November 6th is the last day. But if you pledge before the end of the campaign, you get the book plus all the stretch goals, plus whatever else you want to do.

'cause we have. Other rewards and things that you can get as part of the promotion. All that ends on November 6th. Then, we'll in about, it'll take us about five, six months to actually get the book printed and then it'll go on sale in the spring. So all the backers now will of course get, they'll get the book first, but we may not be able to print a book that's gonna be this high quality again, in this, in this quantity.

So if you're interested in all of this or interested in getting like the audio book thrown in for free, this is the best time. To pre-order. It helps us know how much to order and to be able to afford it. And so, um, but yes, at some point down the road we're gonna also just offer it available through a new publishing house that we're in the process of setting up.

Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, and I, I think, I mean, if I recall when we were [00:10:00] hanging out and was it 2022 or whatever, um. You were talking about. 'cause 'cause Chris is, you know Yeah. Published and, and some of the, the perils of the publishing industry and Yes. And getting stuff to press and, and you know, just, there's a lot to go.

Into that, to actually pull that off. There's a lot,

Rory Groves: there's a lot of, there's a lot to pull it off. And one of the things that we have felt, well first of all, there's probably no one that's gonna take on family economy as a precise goal of their publishing house like we are. I mean, this is what we're about and we feel the need for a lot more resources out there.

Um. But secondly, there's a lot of consolidation in the Christian publishing industry. There is a lot of, what would you say, uh, content producers that have been falling behind the gates now of secular companies that are taking over these publishing houses. [00:11:00] And they're controlling that information. I don't see that as a trend that's gonna get better going forward.

So if we want to be able to say boldly what we have to say about the family, the Christian family, God's role for the, for fathers, for wives, all of these kinds of things, and how that relates to building an economy together at home, we want to just have the freedom to do that. And that means we're gonna have to go through the initial.

Upstart, um, effort of building our own, uh, house and, um, building our own brand and finding our own customers and being able to speak directly to them.

Speaker 2: Yeah. So talk about, um, a little bit about what's driving this strategy as opposed to uploading a PDF to Amazon. Totally. And print on demand, you know? Yes.

Because obviously that's, that's, that is. You don't own the relationship with the customer, still, you're still relying on the good graces of Amazon to agree. So I, I'm sure that that's it. But what are some of the other things besides that, that make [00:12:00] you, well, it's, it's kinda like,

Rory Groves: yeah, it's what I touched on.

We're, we're entering this age where information, as it becomes more digitized, it's easier to control. I mean, in one way it's easier to disseminate. And that is true. I mean, there, there, it. It's expensive to print, you know, physical things, but in another way, um, we're allowing the information to flow on the rails of people who don't necessarily hold our best interests at heart.

And I say us as believers. Um, and, and so we need to think, you know, a lot of folks have done work on alternative economies and things like that, and it's along those lines. But one of the things I've learned just as an entrepreneur for many years is that. There's this principle, don't build your house on rented land.

Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, a lot of people have gotten into trouble by just using other platforms and then well, of course, becoming de platformed. Or just even the rules of the [00:13:00] game changing. I mean, I remember back when Facebook used to be able to post something on Facebook and all your followers would actually see it.

Imagine that. Yeah. Now you have to pay for the same. Right. And so it's just. It's kind of like this, this whole thing of like what's best in the long game, Christians, you know, we can play the short game, but we can't forget about the long game. So I mean, do what you feel in your conscience to do. But for me, I feel like we need to be focusing on the long run in a lot of these cases, even if there's more of a short term pain, short term expense.

I mean, put it out there. If the Lord's leading you to do something, he's gonna supply. We don't need to abide by the rules of the traditional economy. I think that we can be scrappy, we can fight tough, we can come up with creative, nimble ideas that will send the Goliaths on their backs. Um, but, um, but more importantly, I just think it's, it's a long game strategy.

Developing direct relationships with customers. We have a print newsletter, [00:14:00] I mean. Is there anything crazier than coming out with a print newsletter in, I mean, we did this, now it's been almost 10 years, but we have names and addresses of like thousands of families and we, there is no gatekeeper between us and them.

Um, things don't get lost in the email. Another world, but, and I don't even know if, you know, honestly, if that's the right. Thing to do in the long term, but I know that we've been able to communicate directly with thousands of Christian families, get them inspired about family economy and get them connected with other families that are doing something similar.

So you just don't know, and I, so, so don't throw it out just because it's not new or modern. Um, carefully weigh if, if there's a long game component to that strategy. And I would encourage the same thing with any business no matter what you're doing. Focus on the long-term sustainable business, not the quick exit.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think, um, you know, as [00:15:00] we kind of spoke at the beginning of this, about the relationship with podcasting, you know, and for me realizing, uh. First of all, the fruit from podcasting that there was actually families that would move across the country because they heard a podcast and they thought, oh, people are doing this locally the way I think I want to do it.

They'll visit, um, you know, I'll pull out all the stops because I, I view it as a competition to try to get 'em, you know, and, and, and admittedly so, and then they'll, they'll take root in the community and then become one of my. Most trusted advisors and counselors as a, as a, as a brother in Christ and the family and just loving, you know, and I, I was, uh, teaching a group of, of, uh, nine to 12-year-old girls yesterday about how to drive a nail and drive a screw nice.

And pull a nail and mount something in drywall, you know, so we had nine to [00:16:00] 12-year-old girls. Um, it's a inter, multiple churches involved in local community. And, and his daughter is there and is the most, uh, aware Hmm. Uh, of the, the terms and the, oh yeah. This is friction and metal shavings and math about, you know, 'cause I started talking about how old their house is.

It might have plaster and Hmm. You know, and just seeing a new technology bring a yield that I didn't expect. Then at the same time, realizing that right now in this chair, I am not, uh, directly doing something local. You know, this is, this is a, a bid in a sense, a longer game. Mm-hmm. You're doing something somewhere else locally and that's why you're here, you know, like that.

It's not, uh, a internet celebrity. It's a, it's a reality that, that I, I, we get the newsletter. We read it, we see the events like mm-hmm. It's happening in [00:17:00] person, it's building locally. It, and in a lot of ways this can't be scaled. Mm-hmm. The same way. Right. The economies of, of labor and, you know, and then I, I mean, I understand the value of, I mean, I, I literally gotta just got a package for, like, from a book that is on historic moldings, you know.

Nice. And, I mean, molding, molding itself is. In some ways wasteful people will say, you know, but it's, I mean, it's historic millwork. Love it. And, and this is a nice, nice book, you know, and, and I value having, uh, old books, you know, these, all these construction books in the background and things are old and new, and seeing how they did it, the old ways they did things and, and not sleeping on that like that, that this is, and that's, uh, that's all durable trades is talking about is.

This timeless? Yes. What are the timeless vocations

Rory Groves: Yes.

Speaker 2: That are gonna exist [00:18:00] no matter what. Yeah. AI chip is in a $10 billion server form. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and so, uh, I know you can't give away the conclusions of the book, but like, I mean, we'll put this out definitely before the Kickstarter. Um, but I. I, what are we doing now?

You know? Mm-hmm. I mean, did you by any chance listen to that podcast I sent?

Rory Groves: I didn't get a chance to listen to the one on the server farms. Yeah. Um, but I, I know about that and I know kind of about, I mean, I've been writing a lot and researching a lot of the AI arms race right now, which is what it is.

It's an arms race. That's why. That's why everything's being thrown to the win, uh, to pursue it. Um, and let's get into that, but, um, what to do about it now. So a couple things you touched on. So there's, there's, you can leverage technology and I'm not opposed, I mean, here I am talking [00:19:00] to you on. Basically a Zoom call and so clearly mm-hmm.

I'm not opposed, I mean, we, we use e we, I'm not opposed to it. Mm-hmm. The differences is discernment. It's wisdom and discernment, and I think one of the main things to keep in mind with any tech is. You have to look at what, what are the long, long term ramifications of using this technology? One that I like to look at is, does it unite the family or divide the family?

To me that's, I'm, I'm trying to reduce things down to relationships because I've seen, essentially what we have in modernity is we have this obsession with the individual. And it's, it's been a really bad move for society. But I mean, going back hundreds of years, the Industrial Revolution, the great Enlightenment, all of these, you know, the falling away, the, the, the, just the weird deviations in the Christian Church have all basically been traced back to this lust for individual [00:20:00] autonomy.

And, and so, um. The economy that we Autonomy. Autonomy, yes. Yeah. Yes. Just, just pursu everyone doing what's right in their own, uh, in their own mind or in their own way. Uh, and, and so understand the modern economy and pretty much everything that it produces will be reinforcing this idea of individual, uh, um.

You know, power, uh, lust, pride,

Speaker 2: prosperity, comfort, and you even dress it up as a rugged individualism. Yeah.

Rory Groves: Right,

right.

Yeah. So, so the, the big thing that's happened is that when we've revolved around this idea for a long time now, that if we have more money, then that will bring satisfaction in life and meaning, and all these things, and everybody knows they even know it.

They know it's false. What really brings meaning is relationships. That's the dichotomy. That's what has been broken down in [00:21:00] order to produce this quantum amount of money. So think about it this way. It's like if you take a nuclear bomb, the way it works is, and you maybe you know better than I do, but they, they divide an atom.

In a chain reaction of atoms and the, the severing of that nucleus creates this chain reaction that is, you know, nuclear destructive vision, destruction, power, though, I mean, we harness the power to, we harness that to power, you know, entire cities and entire continents, that that's the kind of power that's harnessed, but it comes at the destruction of matter.

And I would say what's happened in our, the last couple of centuries has been that effect on, by separating the family. If the family was the nucleus, the nuclear family severed that chain reaction unleashed something which was material wealth like the world has never seen, [00:22:00] but we've never been able to move.

Industrial revolution, that's it. The industrial revolution. And we have material. Uh, benefits. I mean, there's a lot of things that we have today that we never would've had, but one of the things you can't say is that people are happier, more well connected, have more meaning in their lives than they did before.

That's the one thing that we've given up. And, and, um, not to bore anybody with stats, but it's like, I think it's the, the, the second leading cause of death for 10. Two 14 year olds. 10 I have, I have a 10-year-old, a 13-year-old, and a 14-year-old. The second leading cause of death right now is suicide for 10 to 14 year olds.

Okay? So that just didn't exist before. That came from somewhere, and it came from this, this lack of meaning and this extreme individualism that tries to put money, success, fame, identity as the draw cat of everything else that we do in life. So. [00:23:00] Okay. Back to the answer. Long-winded answer, just to get back to the tech question is that to me it's just that, is this a technology, whether it's a movie or a screen or, or some business opportunity.

Is this something that's gonna unite my family or is it gonna drive us further apart? And I think you, you need to answer that question. Everyone's gonna have to answer that for themselves, but you need to start asking some question. That, that, and not just adopting technology such as AI because it exists.

That's what we've been doing for the last 50 years, and it, it's been, uh, detrimental to the larger society because of it. Mm-hmm.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, and I mean, this, this is gonna, this podcast is getting live transcribed, you know, the recording that, that's, that, that's something that's on the back of. The, the platform that as we go, and that's gonna enable me to, you know, go back and research [00:24:00] the, 'cause I have it in text now.

I can search for particular things. I can, I can leverage that to write the descriptions, you know, that are ultimately not gonna really be the meat of this. That's a, it's a little front end polish on stuff, but, um, but I can, I can totally, I mean, I guess. The, you know, the podcast that I sent is essentially saying everybody is connected to this, uh, this AI arms race.

And the, the premise is that they're building a billions of dollars depending on what the project is. They're actually announced one here in North Carolina, that's gonna be 10 billion, uh, 45 minutes from me. Um. Largest single investment in the state of North Carolina history. Uh, supposed to be, uh, whatever, 10 to 20 250,000 square foot warehouses.

Um, [00:25:00] and then I listened to this podcast to that Mike, a mutual friend of ours sent to me, you know, Hey, check this out. And, uh, I listen to it and they say, okay, so essentially. This $10 billion price tag, around 65 to 70% of that price tag is the latest and greatest chips, um, that will be obsolete in 36 months at current technological price.

So saying you're doing a $10 billion project and that $10 billion project is six to 7 billion in chips. That you can only rent at current rate. So just you view it as a rental property now. 'cause this is not necessarily, these bigger companies aren't, don't all have that organic need to process all this data.

They're renting it to smaller players that are outsourcing it. 'cause they can't build a $10 billion facility essentially. So they're asking people to just, they're trying to [00:26:00] build the latest and greatest they can get, the highest re return on renting the processing. That no matter what if, if, if, if you stop spending this money in 36 months, you don't, you know, so basically it's inevitable.

The, the real estate, the value of the real estate gets depreciated on a 36 month timeline, um, to 30%, 25 to 30% the original value. And there's no way you can rent that space. Those servers for, for longer than that. If everybody, you know, unless we agree, okay, this is gonna be the most processing, which NVIDIA's not gonna let that happen because that's what's causing, and, and then he basically, they said, if you think that because you're conservatively investing in, in, in REITs or these, which are typically the most conservative, they have a 25 to 30% commercial real [00:27:00] estate.

Uh, aspect that is these things and that these companies are all able to write this off, or not even show this on the balance sheet because they're forming separate. Entities Yeah. That are also being backed by lenders and investors or whatever. So it's, it's, it's mutually assured destruction.

Rory Groves: I feel like I've seen this movie before, don't you?

Don't you feel like

Speaker 2: we've been

Rory Groves: here. Yeah,

Nathan Spearing: exactly. And that's, and that, I guess that's for me as I, first of all, for me, I think, thank God I bought land. And I built a house on the land with my own labor. So I, I paid essentially wholesale, um, for a real asset that I'm sitting in right now that is only gonna get value.

And so the fact that I built it with my own skill and my own hands is, is I'm, I'm gonna win. In a lot of ways, because I [00:28:00] developed the land too. I, I brought the plumbing and electrical and septics and, you know, piping water. Um, and I have relationships with a plumber that enabled me to do, you know, 1800 feet of infrastructure for cost because I help him, he helps me, and we, we, we, we have, uh, labor and time that we can exchange for each other's benefit.

And so there's these relationships, but. I still have, I'm, I mean, where I am personally right now is minimizing debt, you know, because there still is a price tag associated with, and, and, and we use our current currency. I mean, basically the way I've even used it is up, up until now, I have been okay with debt because it allows me to do essentially five times what I could do in cash.

What I have in cash, 20% down payment. I can get five times the value from cash and that if I [00:29:00] don't put that cash into something that is real, it's gonna get worth less. Because the only way you can have the billions to build these server farms is if it's make belief to money. You know? Where is that coming from?

Where is that? That's on everybody's balance sheet. Yeah. You know the whole world Yeah. Is being UN is underwriting this fantasy. Um, but, but, you know, I, I guess that's what, what are the things you're, you know, you're telling fathers and, you know, mothers and things like, how are you, in a sense, I view this as a hedge, like mm-hmm.

If you're, if you are like the man Vista car and understanding the times, what do we do? You know? Mm-hmm. It's, it's definitely not double down on ai. Uh, at least in a way that you think it's gonna continue at its current rate. 'cause I think that's, we can get pulled in as Christians, we can get pulled into the arms race.[00:30:00]

And want to use everything. But yeah,

Rory Groves: so, so besides discernment, which is critical, and, and, and by the way, um, talk to people, you know, talk to lots of people. Uh, discernment comes from, um, you know, people that God's put in your life. Elders, um, thinkers, you know, listening to podcasts and things like this.

And, um, but it comes by prayer too. I mean, that's how the manifesta car discern the times and, um. There's discernment and, um, we should all be pursuing that. Um, I, uh. In response to that, I have a very specific response actually, and it just kind of, it just kind of confirmed. I was thinking about posting this to our blog from our, uh, the latest newsletter.

I wrote an article called Surviving the Jobs Apocalypse and um, we're, you know, we are just getting started and it's been. Um, painful to watch families that we've known for years are starting to hit up [00:31:00] against this, uh, jobs revolution, or what are they calling it? Um, they're calling it the, the white collar recession because mm-hmm.

Because the jobs, they're not wiping out the trades. Actually, the trades jobs are the ones that. That we don't have enough workers for. It's wiping out the white call or the information processing. And we knew this was coming. I wrote about it in durable Trades. That was a while ago. But anyway, I, so I'm gonna publish, um, I'm gonna put this on my blog, the grove stead.com.

I'll just put the whole article on there. So go check it out if you wanna read it. But in, in that article, I specifically answer this question and what, here's, here's what, how I feel every family's gotta choose. What they're gonna do. But at a minimum, everyone should be growing food number one. Mm-hmm. I say farming is a floor, and if you can still eat it puts a lot more options on the table.

So I, I make, I pull no punches about that. I mean, we live on a farm. We try to be as self-sufficient as possible. We raise [00:32:00] much of our own food, not all of it, but at least we're learning the skills. So I say, number one, grow your own food. And I,

Nathan Spearing: I guess I'd like to insert, I, we, we've had discussions before that is not.

I have a bunch of seeds in the pantry. Yeah, right. And I'll throw 'em out. It's a survival bank back door in the, in the event that it, you know, like that's in a sense, having a couple raised beds is a, is a is a way. It's still better. I've heard Joel s say it like, have a tomato plant. If that's it, start somewhere.

'cause you're learning exactly a skill. Like, oh, that plant died. Why'd it die? You know, you're learning it at a small scale. Yeah. Uh, and you're scaling

Rory Groves: from there. Um, and, and it'll take you, and the reason why you say don't have a seed bank, just thinking you're gonna throw out the windows 'cause it'll take you decades to learn how to feed yourself off the land.

I mean, it's the sad reality if you don't, unless you were raised in it and I wasn't. It takes a long time. To learn to do that. So that's number one is like, just, [00:33:00] just understand, most of humans for most of human history knew how to feed themselves off the land, and we've lost that knowledge. Um, number two is, um, now I'm gonna blank on it.

Um, number two is store up, but don't stress. Hmm. So this is a principle is all through scripture. Uh, it's all through our ancestors is they stored away. I mean, it wasn't like, uh, you know, the idea of a prepper was just normal life for most people that you would store up for winter. I mean, it's called the harvest.

You know, it's not like, it's not brain science. We've made it into some kind of stigma because, and I think it is a stigma because it goes against this idea that anything bad could ever happen. Yeah. Um, but that's another one. Don't stress about it, but just do it as a way of life. And then there, uh, another one I'll mention is that sometimes change is good.

Sometimes this could be, you know, a, a shaking, whether it's technology or loss of a job or something like that. This could be a wake up call to [00:34:00] do something that. God wants you to do like he there, there is a shift in direction and, and maybe you've even been looking for an excuse to do something well, um, don't, don't wait.

You don't, don't have to wait for the floods to arrive to begin building your arc. You should be doing it now, but just it, it doesn't need to be a thing of stress, but it does need to be a thing of action. You know, you need to be a man of action with your family and begin moving towards something. Um. I, I was sharing with someone yesterday about.

When God called Abraham, well he was Abram out of U of the Chaldeans to the Promised Land. It says he called him to a place that he did not know Abraham, didn't know where he was going, but he left everything behind because of his faith. And it was his faith that was credited as righteousness, his faith in God.

And I think a lot of times, guys, especially those of us who are mid-career and. We're, we've got a lot of [00:35:00] responsibility. Maybe we've got a lot of debt. It can be the scariest thing in the world to rock that boat. And I get it. I mean, I, I went through the same thing, uh, you know, several years ago when we completely, when I walked away from my tech job and I started a family ministry and, you know, we live, we lived very frugally to make that work in the early years.

But the point is, um, uh. You're not, you're not gonna see what it all turns. You're not gonna see the promised land on your first step. It's just gonna be a small step of obedience out of a way of life that isn't producing life. You're stepping away from a culture of death, and then you trust. It's relationship with the Lord that's gonna lead you to the next step and the next step and next step.

It's just a pattern I see over and over again in people's lives. I've talked to dozens of families that have said the same kind of thing that they never thought that they'd be in the position they're in today, but it all started with just having the faith to take the first step. So that's, [00:36:00] that's a beautiful thing because it means that you don't have to have it all figured out.

From the beginning, before you get started, you don't have to have analysis paralysis. You can just do one thing today with your family that unites your family, that's gonna bring you closer to something that's sustainable, that's going to survive whatever's coming, and it's gonna separate you and join you with other families who are doing the same things.

Kinda what you were talking about before with, um, the podcast and how it attracted other families.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Rory Groves: I think one

Nathan Spearing: of the things I want to add. Um, as where I am in, in this space is, and, and I was learned about this in our men's Bible study about Genesis 34 is where Jacob didn't, uh, he, he didn't go to where God said to go.

He kind of stopped. We can, you obviously there's a, is a narrative of in scripture, so you have to be careful about making. Oh, that means this, you know? Mm-hmm. But essentially the overarching thing when [00:37:00] Dina is assaulted. Mm. And, uh, she was, she leaves the house, she's out, the, the foreign people snag her.

The Jacob comes back and is quiet. His sons are angry. His sons do this thing. And essentially, I, I kind of was pushing my past, like draw back to a bigger conclusion and it's essentially, he didn't continue. Two where he was supposed to be, he had kind of stopped. He was, he was supposed to leave the way, the land, the people were doing it.

And he started to, and he kind of got outside, but he didn't continue on to where he was gonna be. You weren't doing what you were supposed to.

Therefore this bad thing happened. And I guess the reason I'm using that, I mean, we have David and Bathsheba, he was not, he didn't go to war. Yeah. So he is, but this particular story, you know, for me it's a long road, you know? Mm-hmm. To get to the promised land mm-hmm. To get [00:38:00] to leave and settle. It doesn't go easy

my favorite part of Abraham's story is Genesis 1414. He takes his 318 trained men and they go and they have to do a hostage rescue for the people because the, the local kingdoms. And that's my prescriptive for, hey, you need to be building a, a protective security capacity as part of this, you know, if you mm-hmm.

And, and I think I like hanging out with guys like you because they tell, Hey, special ops guy, grow food. Like it's act in a lot of ways. And I, you know, I see, uh, I think it's, uh, the end of the world is, is not the beginning. There's just the beginning, which is a, you know, a liberal demographer. But he, he says in there, famine has killed more people than war, you know, I don't know exactly how to shape it, but I, I take the Army's logistic kind of framework and. Go buy that. And it, it starts out with food and sustenance and clothing in that thing. And I'm having discussion with guys, um, about it. I mean, [00:39:00] my, my kind of banner that I'm erecting now that I may end up but is, is the tactical household and Hmm.

Talking about, um, taking military principles and applying them and, and that's just the framework that's familiar to me and is logical. But then to take that Army Logistics manual and say, Hey, you wanna do operations? You know, this is not necessarily gonna be for operations, but this is, you want your family and your household to continue to operate.

Here's the things that the military says. You gotta have to be able to do operations, you know? That's great. I love that. And you don't need rocket launchers and Right, you know, jet fuel necessarily. But you need fuel, you need this, you need and, and. Um, but it, it's, it takes a really long time and I also feel like, um, you can't do it by yourself either, you know?

Yes. Right.

Rory Groves: Well, and the thing, talk about that aspect,

Speaker 2: the net

Rory Groves: local network and how you do that. The thing that's, [00:40:00] it's both hopeful and, um, uh, and encouraging about this, but, but it takes a lot of responsibility, is that you can do something. In fact, the one thing that you can do. Is the best thing that can be done, which is rallying your own family around a vision, a purpose.

Mm-hmm. And this thing's never gonna turn around. Because some Supreme Court justice gets, you know, appointed or some president or some law or whatever. I mean, there are, there are things that you can certainly help and hinder at the political level. But look, man, I mean, if, if you're not rallying every ounce you've got.

You know, it said that, uh, uh, Noah in godly fear prepared an arc for the saving of his household. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you're, if you're not moved to do everything else you can besides check the box every couple of years at, you know, at the elections, um, [00:41:00] then you're not gonna make it. You, it's gonna take everything.

But that's the good news, is that you don't have to wait for some. Political party to come to your rescue. You can do so much as a family today. You can start and um, and, and that, you know, what we was saying before is as soon as you take those initial steps, you start to begin that journey, you are gonna find other families who are doing the same thing.

We have in, um, uh, Minnesota, where, where we are, we have been hosting events through Gather and Grow for, I mean, well honestly. Goes before, before we started the family ministry, but we, we host events up there multiple times a year. We have fairs, we have conferences, we bring in speakers. We've had, um, thousands of people come through our property and, um.

And this one common refrain that we hear from so many of these, because we're always speaking on family economy, that's kind of our core focus. They always say, [00:42:00] I didn't know that there were other people out there like us that were feeling this way. You know, that we're growing their own food or trying to, trying to keep the family together in their vocations.

And they're so refreshed when they find a pocket of people out there. Who are talking about these things and gathering and encouraging each other, and that's just, that's part of the process and that's part of the excitement is that oftentimes you might be the only one in your neighborhood or community or your um, uh, church.

We've heard that many times. I'm the only, we're the only family at our church that thinks this way. There's others out there. The Lord has reserved many others who have not bowed the knee. And so, um, that's part of the exciting part of the walk of faith in all of this. There the Lord has, um, he's not checkmated.

He's got a plan for his people and he knows how to hold. The righteous to rescue the righteous from trials while he holds the ungodly for punishment. So there's, there's a dual thing that'll be worked [00:43:00] out here. I don't know what the role of all of the technology will be. I really think we're at the very early stages of this revolution, and it's a little bit difficult.

Um, and arrogant to try to predict it. We don't, we know that it will be a mega disruption and that that much is pretty much certain and, and we've seen it already, but, um, but we really don't know, you know, what, what to invest in and what to, um. Uh, what technologies to embrace and which ones to avoid and why, but we do know that we can make huge strides with our own families.

We still have the freedom to do that in America, and you can begin building something that's small but durable, something that's going to not just turn, turn over because they invent a better AI chip, right? Mm-hmm. That's the kind of thing that families need to be looking at. That's why I wrote about durable trades is because these are historical.

Types of work that for the most part are probably gonna be with us for several [00:44:00] more centuries.

Nathan Spearing: Hmm. So talk about some, some, uh, specific things that you're, uh, you know, we, we, I'll I'll link our previous podcast that people can go back and talk about that. I think that that will be maybe the. Primer besides durable trades and then our conversation, but the primer on the Oh yeah.

Rory Groves: Family

Speaker 2: economy. Family economy, and sure. How that, that works. But talk about how you, um, decide because if you're not continuing to invest and learn, you, you're dying, you're, you're, you're not. So talk about some specific ways that your family is continuing to, to head towards the promised land and well invest in these things.

Certainly besides publishing.

Rory Groves: Certainly, yeah, well, publishing's the latest thing. Um, so certainly, um. I, I just think that entrepreneurship is the best teacher. I mean mm-hmm. Learn by [00:45:00] doing. And, um, you meet people when you step out there and start doing things. And so, uh, um, like one of the things that we've focused on a lot in the last several years is getting our kids involved in everything that we can get them involved in.

I mean, of course we homeschool at home, but when we do conferences on the road, our kids are always with us. We almost never do a conference. Without the whole family together, it's just a principle that I, that I try to adhere to where, where possible, um, because it's training my children in all kinds of, uh, life skills.

So for, for, for that. So that's a huge part of the education is just bringing your family along and then you also get to learn how. Manhandle a 3-year-old. Yeah. During a day long conference workshop. And, um, so mom and dad get a good education too, but, um, but we find it to be really bonding for the family.

I believe it's building ties, it's gonna last, you know, our children's lives. And those are the [00:46:00] relational aspects of it. But in terms of the other things is. You know, you always have a number of options on the table and it takes a lot of patience 'cause you're, you're never gonna get to do everything that you dream up.

But there are certain doors that begin to open as you move forward. I kind of think of it like, um. If you're in a canoe and you're going down the river, like if you, if you try to stop still or park that thing and then, and kind of like map out everywhere you're gonna go, but you're already in the water, you're probably gonna tip the canoe over.

The best thing to do is to just start moving forward. And you can actually have better ability to steer that, uh, that canoe, uh, than if you try to stand still. And life, life is a river. I mean, I don't know how else to say it. Just start moving forward and you'll see opportunities open that you couldn't see around the Riverbend until you get there.

And that's been, you know, like I said, with the publishing, I started this out saying we just, we saw this book. It just came to us like, I think we're [00:47:00] supposed to publish this book. I think this is gonna be part of what our ministry at some point, that was three years ago. And it took us a long time to figure out how exactly this was gonna happen.

We met with a lot of people. We tried to, to, to learn about the publishing side business. I know nothing about it. This is our first entrance into it. We met some great people that are, that have offered to help us along the way and but, but it's been a, it's been a very deliberate process, but that's one option.

I mean, there's a lot of other things that we would like to do and all things in their timing. Right. There's a, see, there's a, there's a time for, for everything under heaven. So, but as long as we're moving forward, we continue to make connections and we continue to see opportunities open up. And some of them we fall flat on our faces and they don't work out.

And some of 'em, you get a little wiser for the wear and you can do better next time. So that's, that's kind of it. But I just think of like. The family is the education, the economy, you know, bringing folks together is the [00:48:00] education. It's really confronting all of life with, um, with real skills. And if you don't know what you're doing, go find a mentor and learn it, uh, or study up on it, uh, and rehearse it.

The other thing too is, um, I never really envisioned myself as an author. Um, that wasn't like even. I mean, I was a computer programmer for my whole career, and it's like, it wasn't until I started writing for our family newsletter that I didn't kind of learn, like I actually, I really enjoyed this. I, I kind of would like to, to do more of this.

And eventually all that writing led to my first book and then a whole new door. I mean, a huge door opened up for us with the publishing of durable trades. So all of these things are like, it's. You know, it's just taking action and getting practicing and beginning to move forward on that. Life is a great teacher in that way.

Nathan Spearing: Well, and I would, I would guess, uh, that having thousands of addresses [00:49:00] both physical and email and a gather and grow, uh, brand and nonprofit and training that you've done, and the relationships that you built in person are how you are able to successfully raise what you have. Yeah. No, I mean, you wrote can't do that without years of faithfully Exactly.

Doing a print newsletter. Yeah. That how, I mean, how many, when you first sent it out, how many went out, you know, like 30. Yeah. And what do you, what is the circulation now?

Rory Groves: The last one went out and we're actually calling some of that back because, um, you know, a, after so many years, but the last one went out to something like 4,500 households.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah,

Rory Groves: and that's all word of mouth. We don't advertise. I mean, I advertise that if I'm on a podcast, I'll let people know we have it. Yeah, but it's a free newsletter. We'll mail it to your house and it's just this, it's, it's literally just like working out. How does a family economy work? What does it look like?

Here's some of the stories that we've [00:50:00] learned, here's some inspiration. And um, and trying to encourage the people who are trying. That's always been my heart behind the newsletter is I don't wanna persuade anyone to do anything they don't wanna do. I want to find the families who are trying, and I wanna put some wind in their sails because it's so rare to find a family like that.

They need encouragement. I really feel that that's a, a huge part of what we're doing, what we exist for. Yeah. Can you, uh, can you get. Digital copy of it? Or is that just, I don't, I just don't have a digital copy, uh, download. But if you go to our website, gather and Grow Us, um, we have the links for the Kickstarter campaign, right at the top of the page.

You'll see that we have the newsletter sign up, we have links to the book, we have audios from past conferences. And, um, yeah, and you're right. Yeah. I, and that's probably something that

Nathan Spearing: makes it it special too. 'cause it's in a sense, you're, you are, uh, not. Using technology that would make this easier. You know, you're [00:51:00] choosing a different

Rory Groves: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Thing,

Rory Groves: you

Speaker 2: know.

Rory Groves: Well, it's, I mean, our kids write articles. It, it's a thing that the way we do it right now, it works for right now. Um, and because, largely because it makes it a family project rather than dad sitting at the computer crunching out a, you know, an email. Uh, and easing and stuff like that. And believe me, I know all about that.

I came from that world. I was, that was my life for 25 years before I moved into this. So for me, it's like, it's cathartic to get away from all the screens and, and to, to involve my family. And we used to fold and stuff, the newsletters right at our, uh, living room table. Mm-hmm. Um, I've got pictures in one of the book of, of like the, the children just folding stuff in like 500 envelopes and eventually we had to move.

To a local printer 'cause it just got to be too many. But for years that's how we did it. And it was just, it was really fun and, and, and, um, it was a great way to connect with other families. But it's not like a formula, it's just something that felt right at the time. We [00:52:00] pursued it, it led to another thing which was publishing of a book.

And that led to another thing, which is now we're doing, you know, speaking on this topic. We're hosting events at our farm. Um, and that's led to now opening a publishing house. So it's that I would not have been able to sit down and map out this course. If we had talked five years ago, even, I wouldn't have had the foggiest notion of what was coming down the pike.

But, um, that's the fun of it. And I really think that the Lord blesses the families that unite around a common vision. I think that that's built into the DNA of what God's plan was for families. Mm-hmm. For me, I believe, you know, uh, Kevin Swanson, I have a picture of an ax on the front of, uh, uh, the family economy, and that comes from a saying from Kevin Swanson who said.

The family economy is like. An ax, it's like an ax head. If you're trying to use just an ax head to take down trees, it's gonna take you a while. But if you put a handle on that head, [00:53:00] the capability for useful work increases a hundred fold. And that's the basic elements of the family economy. It's uniting around a common vision where you're all working together rather than being pulled in a million different directions.

And the, the, the kind of capacity and capability that you have with those whom God has given and entrusted to you is. Exponentially more than anything. Any kind of thing you could conjure in the modern economy or doing it alone. So that's a little bit about us.

Nathan Spearing: Yeah, I was, uh, a friend of mine, uh, we, I got in, I actually got in the background.

I have this axe here. Um, nice. Love it. Uh, in talking about the, the usefulness of that. Okay. And compared to a sword, compared to a shovel, compared to, you know, all that stuff. And, uh, it, it's, it's pretty interesting how these, these things reflect God's order back to us. But

Rory Groves: Amen.

Nathan Spearing: I mean, [00:54:00] I, I really appreciate your time, uh, and I know, you know, you got more things to build locally, but, uh, just give us a recap of where Sure.

Where people can find you.

Rory Groves: Well, biggest, biggest way to support us right now would be to, um, go pre-order the book Henry and The Great Society. Uh, it's on Kickstarter, but if you go to Gather and Grow Us, I've got the link right at the top of the page. That would be amazing. You could see what we're up to.

The latest. There's a video all about our ministry at the top of the Kickstarter campaign page. Um, but otherwise sign up for the newsletter. Same place. Um, you could order our books, durable Trades, or the Family Economy or just drop us a note. Let us know how we can support your family. That's what my wife, Becca, and our family, uh, want to do.

We pray for families every single night. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you, Nate. Appreciate being back. Let's do it again. Absolutely.

[00:55:00] Click