Ep. 86 | Martyrdom, Masculinity, and Mission with Dr. Uri Brito (Reflecting on Charlie Kirk)

In this episode, Nathan Spearing sits down with Uri Brito, Presiding Minister of the Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC)—the denomination that includes leaders like Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth. Together they reflect on the recent martyrdom of Charlie Kirk and what it means for Christians today. The conversation covers how men, families, and churches should respond in times of national upheaval: from worship and discipleship to marriage, child-rearing, and public witness. Pastor Brito lays out practical steps for raising sons and daughters in the faith, building strong households, and engaging publicly with boldness. They also discuss why young men are drawn to Orthodoxy, the need for strong Protestant voices, and how social media can be used strategically for kingdom work.

Follow Uri Brito on Twitter/X: https://x.com/uribrito

 The Perspectivalist by Uri Brito (The Perspectivalist for regular essays, culture commentary, and pastoral reflections:)

CREC (Communion of Reformed Evangelical Churches): https://crechurches.org

Sing Your Part - Establish Your Church's Singing Culture - https://singyourpart.app

Nathan’s website: www.Spearing.co

Want to go deeper? Join the Tactical Household private group—a community for building resilient, capable families. Access at TacticalHousehold.com and use code LifeOnTarget for 10% off

Timestamped Outline

[00:00:00] Opening

Intro: reformation, Protestant tradition, and the example of Charlie Kirk.Nathan welcomes Pastor Uri Brito.

[00:02:00] Current Events & Sabbath Convictions

Uri shares about being invited to Charlie Kirk’s funeral on a Sunday and why he declined.The importance of keeping the Lord’s Day holy even during public events.

[00:03:00] Why Nathan Reached Out

Nathan recalls hearing Uri on rites of passage and the importance for military dads and churches.Connecting Charlie Kirk’s ministry to the absence of true rites of passage in American culture.

[00:08:00] Uri’s Background

Pastor in Pensacola, doctorate from Reformed Theological Seminary.Commitment to training pastors, political theology, and household economy.Father of five, invested in homeschooling and Christian education.

[00:10:00] Responding to Charlie Kirk’s Martyrdom

Nathan asks: “What are we supposed to do now?”Uri stresses application: worship, discipleship, household faithfulness, and public action.Martyrdom always produces multiplication in church history.

[00:14:00] Lessons from Charlie Kirk’s Life

Charlie’s rhetorical gifts, boldness, and courage.Martyrdom as a call to examine apathy and complacency in men.

[00:16:00] First Sphere: The Church

Recommitment to worship, catechism, and modeling faith for children.Martyrdom as a call back to faithful participation in local congregations.

[00:18:00] Second Sphere: Household Leadership

Men: get married, take responsibility, provide for families.Fathers must disciple their children directly, not outsource to wives or schools.Masculine education: setting rituals, rhythms, and rites of passage.

[00:20:00] Third Sphere: Public Witness

Engaging the local community: trash cleanup, confronting drag events.Example of Uri’s congregation planning a Psalm sing against public sin in Pensacola.

[00:22:00] Balancing Household and Public Duty

Nathan asks about prioritizing wife/kids vs. public action.Uri explains the church-friendly family model: spheres are interconnected, not isolated.Distinguishing between practitioners and poets in the church.

[00:28:00] Worship and Singing as Warfare

The importance of masculine, bold singing in congregational life.Tools like the Sing Your Part app to train families.Psalms of lament as appropriate response to tragedy.

[00:33:00] Denominations, Coalitions, and Online Engagement

Why denominational fights shouldn’t distract from bigger cultural battles.Need for coalitions like Charlie Kirk built.How online debates differ from face-to-face fellowship.

[00:39:00] Poets and Practitioners

Uri’s framework: poets (philosophers) and practitioners (doers).Why the church needs both — and why each must learn from the other.

[00:41:00] The Lure of Orthodoxy and Catholicism

Why young men are attracted to ritual and structure.Uri calls Eastern Orthodoxy a “mirage of the ancient.”Protestantism’s true fruits: Reformation, Puritans, and Western cultural achievements.

[00:55:00] Building Protestant Stability

Protestant tradition offers truth, beauty, and goodness when lived faithfully.Need for more bold Protestant voices online and in media.

[01:00:00] Using Social Media Wisely

Why almost everyone should be online (with a few exceptions).Poets and practitioners working together.Practical playbook: start with Scripture, add quotes, then strategy.Do things well: good tools, quality production, accountability.

[01:06:00] Closing Thoughts

Social media as service to Christ and His church.Encouragement for men to act decisively under church authority.Uri departs for an adoption ceremony; Nathan closes with thanks and blessing.

Transcript:

Uri interview

shotgun: [00:00:00] Click. Click.

Uri Brito: There’s a beauty to the reformation and to the Protestant tradition that needs to be reinstilled in the hearts of people.

And it’s true. We need more gifted YouTubers. We, uh, somebody who provides a greater vision of Protestant than Gavin Orland, you know, who does a fine job, but we

Nathan: Amen.

Uri Brito: a, a much richer Protestant tradition than what’s what he’s offering there from a tradition that doesn’t compromise in political matters. So that’s, that’s what I’m saying. And I think these, these, these are appearing, they’re taking place, they’re showing up. uh, this is the season I think the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, I hope, will stir up 100 dormant voices to, to get out there and proclaim this, this vision that I’m proposing.

Nathan: Pastor welcome

Uri Brito: Hey Nathan, how are you?

Nathan: Living the dream.

Uri Brito: Hey, there you go. By Nathan or Nate.

Nathan: Uh, either my mother called me Nathan, and I feel [00:01:00] like it’s slightly more biblical, but in the military they, they like to truncate to single syllables,

Uri Brito: Oh, I imagine, I imagine

Nathan: realized my office door was open and there is a sometimes joyful music being produced and sometimes not so joyful music being produced in the household. So

Uri Brito: that’s a productive household. Looks like, sounds like,

Nathan: always endeavoring to be.

Uri Brito: Man. I am. Um, you know, I just got back from Brazil and um. these decisions I have to make. I just got a call from T-P-U-S-A, they gave me sort of VIP seats to go to the, the Kirk funeral.

Nathan: Oh, wow.

Uri Brito: um, but it’s on Sunday morning. It’s just, uh, I I don’t understand that at all. So I,

Nathan: I saw that, um, announcement and, um, the, the CREC has work to do still when I see stuff like that.

Uri Brito: I know. Yeah, me too. I feel the same way. Uh, so anyhow, so I’ll be here and I’m, so God knows what he’s [00:02:00] doing. ’cause I came back from Brazil with a little bit of a cold and uh, in fact I still have a little bit of a cold now. But, uh, other opportunities will arise.

Nathan: Amen. Pastors face the, the struggle to honor the Sabbath just like the rest of us.

Uri Brito: Exactly. We have a couple of Series C churches in the area that have afternoon services.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: And, um, that may have worked well, but I just, I’m just, I feel just convictions in that regard. Anyhow, you can tell it’s been in my mind last, uh, 12 hours. So I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit.

Nathan: Absolutely. I, um, I reached out to you and scheduled this, I think three or four weeks ago. Um, and, uh, none of what has happened in the last week or so has, was, had transpired. So I kind of originally. Reached out. I listened to a podcast I think he did a couple years ago about rites of passage and how you did that in your [00:03:00] household.

And I was like, I gotta talk to this guy about this. ’cause that’s something, we’re a predominantly special operations community, so it’s something that the dads here, um, I think as I look at the landscape, do very well in the discipling of their children. And then, you know, tying that to some, some pretty masculine activities.

Um, and so, but I think the, the, the flavor of, of what I wanted to talk about changes a little bit. I think it does go back to that because Charlie was speaking to these young men that hadn’t been spoken to, hadn’t been, uh, hadn’t gone through a rite of passage, if you will, or had, had been going through a rite of passage that, um, the government gave them.

I talked to a friend about it with being the. Driver’s license or graduating high school or things like that, that the government tells these young men, they’re, they’re entering a new phase necessarily, but the church is not. Um, so I guess, you know, maybe [00:04:00] give people a little bit of background about who you are and then maybe we can jump into that.

Um, and I got a couple bullet points, but I, I, I don’t have a whole lot of structure. I’m, I’ve told people that I, I started a podcast ’cause if, if you call somebody up, a wiser, older man that, um, you want to talk to and you say, Hey, can we jump on a phone call? You can kind of sound like a weirdo, but if you got a podcast, it’s a little bit easier to, to get to talk to the men.

So that’s kind of been my, my strategy is, is it gives me a little bit of access to men that I wanna learn from and then, uh, allows others to maybe tag along. And my son usually edits the podcast, so at least he gets to hear. Uh, what these men are saying as well. So I, my edification and then my son’s edification and that’s enough for me.

And if everybody else gets it, so be it.

Uri Brito: That’s great. I, I love all, all those things. ’cause I think that’s the, nature of it, you gotta do it. The conversations need to happen and they, it’s [00:05:00] really remarkable to see that will visit our congregation here in Pensacola and they have been, listen to something i I podcast I did seven, eight years ago.

I, I literally, Nathan have absolutely no recollection of anything. But uses all these, little fragments to pierce the souls of a lot of us, a lot of good saints. And, uh, they learn from it. So I’m grateful.

Nathan: Yeah. Maybe I can get you to get our, our pastor on social media. He refuses. Um, I think that’s, that’s maybe the, uh, faithful using of the, of media has been something I’ve, I’ve kind of preached, uh, locally and, you know, I’ve had people. Join our congregation because of my construction business’s Instagram.

And I try to, I try to give people the option to follow as much of Nate as they want to. So if they want to just see my professional construction work, they can. But it’s a pretty easy hop to find my wife and I, um, and what we’re doing and, uh, [00:06:00] you know, but, but I, at the same time, I, I, I wouldn’t want my pastor to go off the deep end.

And I, I, I get a lot from, from what he, he does. I don’t think he would, ’cause he is a wise man, but maybe, maybe we’ll get you linked up with him about, about putting out the podcast. What some of the men in our church have taken the liberty to just start recording him and putting out stuff, uh, the sermons.

And we, we do have a live stream that is, that goes out, but starting to kind of try to get a little bit more of, of what he’s putting out mostly for our own church. I think that’s the thing that’s missed too, is that. Church members are sick or tending to something like that, that they, they actually honor the Sabbath, but they legitimately have something happen that is, uh, emergencies type stuff that can go back and listen and, uh, as well.

So anyway, I’m this, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna change my pastor’s mind in this, this talk.

Uri Brito: Yeah. Well, I mean, just for the record, I, I suspect that, [00:07:00] uh, you know, Spurgeon and his manuscript, they were obviously were very prolific and, uh, we, we gained from Spurgeon, I think when Spurgeon died, we were years or four years from the first recordings that occurred.

Nathan: Hmm.

Uri Brito: And so, um, but I mean, think about how much we’ve gained.

I suspect he would’ve easily, or, or, or Martin Lloyd Jones, right? The minister of Martin Lloyd Jones, or, I suspect he, every generation people have recorded their thoughts, not because they thought they were. Significant or special, but because they thought that what they had to offer was gonna benefit their immediate community. And, um, and, and then I realized the responsibilities that are placed on UND seasons of national chaos. And, um, I think, you know, we’ve, I think we had seven or eight visitors that came because of my articles on, on Facebook, on the, on the, on the, the Kirk situation. People are listening and people are gaining their data in the nine, in the 19th century through the national [00:08:00] newspaper that was coming out in the Netherlands.

Right. That’s how Abraham Kiper got involved in these kinds of things. today, the, the medium is what it is. Anyway, I’m talking too much. I, I have a, I enjoyed his footnotes.

Nathan: Yeah. Yeah. So give a little bit of background of geography, family, um, maybe a little bit of, of how you came to this point for, for context, and we will, we’ll, uh, dive in to some of those other things.

Uri Brito: Yeah, I am, uh, pastor Uri Brito. I received my, my. My doctorate from Reformed Theological Seminary and Pastoral Theology, years ago. And so much of my work has been geared towards training pastors to think, theologically liturgically, but also politically as well. I have, um, I, but I always make the case very clear that the true politics begins in the worship of God’s people, and that overflows to the politic of the, of the home. even the word household means [00:09:00] ika comes from ika, which means the economy of the home. So there’s, there’s an economic structure that is very much part of the world that God created. the question for us is not so much do we engage ourselves in these economic structures of the home, of the church or the state. The question is how do we steward these economic structures the, this exchange of not only, uh, currency, but the exchange of ideas is something that I’ve been very much, uh, geared towards. I have, uh, five kids, all of them are, um, either homeschooled or go to a local classical Christian school. I have spoken in homeschool environments.

I’ve spoken in classical school environments. So my commitment has been very much to the, to the blessing of indoctrinating our, our youth and our young ones through biblical education and also encouraging parents to take on that remarkable task. And I think Nathan, part of this larger conversation you and I are having, uh, stems from how do we, how do we handle then the, the gifts that God has given [00:10:00] us in our home, uh, namely our children? And that’s what I’m, I’m very eager to talk about this morning.

Nathan: Awesome. Yeah, I, um, I, I guess the. I asked my pastor, we, we had a, uh, um, you know, the incident with Charlie, the assassination with Charlie happened, uh, Wednesday and we have Wednesday midweek prayer service. And I was on a, uh, spaces on X for a little bit talking about it and, you know, what are they gonna do?

And I said, I’m, I’m gonna do what I do every week, uh, on Wednesday, and let’s go to church and pray with the saints. And, you know, obviously, um, everybody, uh, was in a, in a different state depending on where they were and what their station was in life. But that, that touchpoint of, of being in the sanctuary of the Lord, being on our knees and, and praying and um, having that ritual was anchoring to me.

Um, [00:11:00] and, you know, I load my five kids up and go to pray. And, and some of the people we’re talking about, you know, in these, these spheres about how that. And they, and they didn’t mean it disrespectfully, but they talked about how that, that didn’t seem like enough, you know? Um, and then, you know, like, what, what I, I got it.

Pray. Yep. I’m not making light of that. But then what? You know, and, and then we had a men’s, uh, psalm sing at a, that we get together pretty regularly as men and sing. And then, uh, as is, as a tradition in, in our denomination, there’s, there’s cigars and, and various, uh, liquid forms of enjoyment. And, uh, we sit around, I think we, we ended up sitting for two and a half hours, and I asked my pastor, um, what are we supposed to do?

You know, and, and not necessarily, um, you know, like I, I’m not gonna accept the, the, the standard answer. I want to hear a little bit more, and I, I like [00:12:00] to hear from you, you know, what are, what are we supposed to do? I have in my outline, uh, men. And then I, I’d like to go, you know, women and, and kids, young men, children, and even old people.

’cause that we find all these different people in, in the church. Um, and, and you specifically what you’ve been saying in the last, uh, week and a half or so to these, to people about what we’re supposed to do. You know, what, what we want to take action.

Uri Brito: The, the question that I always end my sermon with is the old Francis Schafer question, you know, how now shall we then live? Which I think is a very pertinent one, uh, to ask in, in every sermon. Ultimately, you know, the Puritans sometimes would have 33 points of application at the end of a sermon. Uh, no, nobody is, uh, to preach, you know, two and a half hour servants.

But nevertheless, the, the point I think still stands that the, the application of the word of God is something that needs to be, thought through [00:13:00] very carefully, especially in these high seasons. In these high seasons, whether it be liturgical seasons or high civic seasons, when things of great importance of, of shake up the foundations of our country.

And I think this is in many ways what God has done, is that he has shaken up our, our country in these last seven, eight days. And the things that stand will stand and the things that were, uh, always, you know. Prone to falling away will fall away. This is a bit of a, of a vineyard imagery taking place in John 15 in our nation right now. And I am somewhat, I, I, I, I feel a level of pity towards those congregations that are not equipped to handle these kinds of scenarios because I think pastors, and I’m not talking about, they don’t have to write sophisticated dissertations on these kinds of things, but they ought to have a couple of practical thoughts to, to give to their people because these are the things they’re thinking about. This is the thing that they’re thinking about at work, the thing they’re thinking about at home. [00:14:00] Uh, they’re young men. You know, my, my young boys listen to podcasts, listen to Daily Wire, uh, cross Politic, listen to, uh, Charlie Kirk, all these men, and these are the conversations they’re having at school as well. And so there is an inevitability to the Christian faith when it comes to these issues. Like you have to talk to them. can be, you can be somewhat unequipped to discuss, but you have to discuss. And so as I’ve thought through these issues, I think I’ve written about five, six articles, ’cause it’s been very, much pressing in my heart these last few days. The remarkable thing is very hard, Nathan, to fathom many gifts in one human being at such a young age. just the rhetorical gift, but the ability to build coalition, ability to think on his feet. Uh, the ability, the, the boldness, the courage, the ability to, to wear a, a vest everywhere you go as a, as a preparation, um, for a [00:15:00] potential death or potential, uh, casualty. These kinds of things, they weigh on you as a man. And it’s remarkable that God placed all these gifts in a, in a 30, 31-year-old man named Charlie Kirk. And I think as we, as we remember and memorialize Charlie Kirk, I think one of the things that comes to mind in these conversations is that, is it not true that many of us have become rather complacent and apathetic in our faith? What does the example of a Charlie Kirk instruct us in thinking through what will our dispositions be in the days ahead? And I think that a lot of our men have become rather comfortable, the malaise of COVID got them on their feet, may perhaps this is the, this is the new, the new COVID era, and it doesn’t come through a. A, you know, we might say somewhat of a fabricated disease, comes [00:16:00] through the death of a true Christian martyr. And the question now is, how now shall we then live in light of this here? What will a martyrdom produce? Martyrdoms throughout history have always produced multiplication. This has been the chronology of history, history.

God has always planted seeds through the death of his saints, and those seeds have, uh, sprung forth in, uh, remarkable resurrection moments. And so in, at this point, a couple of things come to mind. What is your involvement in local congregation? That’s a, a serious contemplation for many of us. Maybe the apathy has struck you in such a way, uh, that you have begun to treat church as it’s some kind of optional thing as opposed to the way the reformer spoke of it as the, um, as, as, as the church, as, as our mother, without which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation. What is your involvement in the life of the church? How have you been encouraging [00:17:00] discipling God’s people worshiping? always tell, uh, my, my parishioners that. When the worship is occurring in the body of Christ, there’s always, if you have children, there’s always a little person looking up to you and they’re looking at a model.

Because human beings are imitative by nature. Nathan and how you worship will instruct their understanding of worship. So worship, worship faithfully, worship When your heart is not fully engaged, worship, work hard at the process of worship, prepare your families. Let the, the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, a true evangelical man who loved God’s people.

I had the opportunity to interact with his pastor when I was at T-P-U-S-A at an event some months ago where Charlie spoke, and this is a, even though they’re from a different tradition than we are at the reform tradition, these men, they loved Christ. They were engaged in the worship of, of Christ. So keep that in, in, in the back of your mind. Secondly, and I’m just going [00:18:00] through the, the initial, the, the categories of spheres here. Secondly, as men, if you are not married. Why are you not married? We have allowed the American, the, the American strategic way of thinking about reality to shape the way Christian men have thought about reality. I am always appalled by men who have grown up at the church, who are in their mid to late twenties who are still indecisive about whether they’re prepared for marriage or what. Listen, I’ve been to marriage counseling for exactly, I’ve been doing marriage counseling for 20 years now. The point of marriage is that you’re not prepared for it, and that God is going to sanctify you through that process. The point of marriage is you can’t afford it. God is going to give you the, the willingness and the commitment and the faithfulness to work through it, because now the, the, the enthusiasm increases.

Now, the Bible says that, that those who not provide for this family are worse than an infidel. [00:19:00] Well, I think part of that lack of, uh, provision is the motivation to provide. But when you have a wife under your care, under your tutelage submitted to you, there’s your motivation to provide. No one wants to be an infidel, but there is your motivation.

And the same with our children as well. There are many men who go about their days without contemplating much at all about the responsibility that they have to nurture their young ones, their little ones at home. And they allow, they, they grant their responsibility to their wives, who typically do a fine job, working double time to make up for the inadequacies of their husbands who are very much devoid and divorce in the process. daddy has to be involved. Daddy has to be involved because a true education is a masculine education. daddy’s the one who has to establish, uh, rituals of life for their children, rhythms of life for their children, especially their sons. so care for the church, care for the. Responsibilities that are inherent in the life of [00:20:00] the, of the household. And then finally, look at your town. Look at your town. There’s a, a road that I have to take to get to church on Sunday mornings and throughout the week, and I see trash on the side of the road. Uh, I don’t know why, but I get deeply irritated through that. am I gonna do about that? These are small, minuscule examples here.

What am I gonna do about the we have here in Pensacola, which is absolutely shameful, there will be a drag queen. A drag queen event the 23rd of December during the high advent season, two days before holy Christmas died. That is absolutely unacceptable. congregation is, was stirred even more so by the boldness of Charlie Kirk, uh, to be there on the 22nd and 23rd singing Psalms in hymns.

And Lord d willing, uh, we have a congregation around 400 plus people. We’ll have at least Lord D willing half of those out there singing with their little ones. And in peaceful fashion, of [00:21:00] course, but not with peaceful psalms. gonna sing Psalms of implication, Psalms of lament, because this is abhorrent.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: eyes. And so we’re we plant to sing. And I think these are just some examples of what we are to do. And momentous occasions like the martyrdom of, of someone who lived for the faith, who breathed the faith, who boldly proclaimed the faith, who was not ashamed of the faith. These martyrdoms ought to stir people up to particular actions. they have become calloused. Otherwise, they are true candidates for apostasy. And I would be very deeply sorry if this martyrdom did not move and cause you to live according to God’s standards as a result of it.

Nathan: Would you say, um, like, describe the order? ’cause I, I like the order that you did it. You know, you started, uh, about an individual action and then it kind of worked its way out to [00:22:00] be more corporate in nature, you know, and we had one particular young man, it’s like, I don’t want to do. Anything but my wife and kids, you know, and, and make sure I’m focusing on that ’cause I I’m not doing that well.

And that it maybe just speak to that tension, um, for how you’re supposed to know, because obviously we’re never gonna be perfect husbands and fathers, but I can potentially idolize my marriage to the detriment of my kids even though it has a higher priority. And, and, and it flows out of that faithfulness to my children.

Just talk through that, that tension for, for young men and, and I don’t struggle with that. I launch a podcast. I try to throw together a church security training thing because I want to meet a need 80%. And it’s a military thing. Indecisive action, um, doesn’t equal victory. And continuing to plan when the plan will not survive, first contact with the enemy, [00:23:00] like as the military acts them that we, you know, talk about all the time, like you plan, plan, plan doesn’t mean we don’t plan.

It doesn’t, but we, we still conduct the operation and, and we could stay on the range and shoot all day and never go out and where the enemy is and engage them. Um, you know, and, and I’m mixing that metaphorically. I’m not prescribed. That’s, that’s me and my old, uh, as a agent of, of, of the state exercising justice.

But me as a man now and, and who’s looking at five children and a wife and active in the church and I’m looking at this thing, but then, you know, okay, how, what, what’s the order? How do I work through that?

Uri Brito: You know, many years ago I edited a book called The Church Friendly Family, it was an attempt to sort of correct what I considered was an erroneous view of the world, which was through the category and the phrase of the family friendly church. And I wanted to switch that around myself and uh, one of my mentors, rich, um, [00:24:00] Randy Booth and my dear friend, rich Lust, we wanted to switch that category around the church friendly family. And what that meant was that these, these spheres were not meant to be separated. And the reality is that we have, we certainly have created, uh, because nature of being in America, we have created a, a, a very. A remarkable sense of individualism and individuality. There, there’s, there’s benefits in all these things.

I, I agree with that sort of capitalistic spirit in one sense, but I also want to add a couple layers to that. And, and the first layer I’d add is that the Bible is a corporate book. The Bible is a book that incorporates the I into the we. And that language is very much, very much preeminent throughout the sacred scriptures, even use Paul’s category of the, the theology of, of our union with Christ is that what Christ possesses. We also have a [00:25:00] union with him. And so if we kept our individuality apart from our union with Christ, we would be nothing. We would be, uh, destined to hell. And so this principle also applies the way young men think through these categories is that we, we live in a. live in a Navy town, as you know, Nathan here in Pensacola, Florida, and we have some Marines as well.

And these

Nathan: I’m sorry.

Uri Brito: Providence. I knew you were gonna say

Nathan: Yeah.

Uri Brito: Uh, these men are coming to Providence with a, a strong desire to incorporate themselves in something far greater than the military. They wanna incorporate themselves to church militant. want to sing things that parallel the kind of world they live in. They’re, they’re in a world in always in preparation for war and training for war. And now they wanna join a community where the sons of God go forth to war.

Nathan: Amen.

Uri Brito: you, when you separate these categories, you are creating young men who will make wonderful [00:26:00] Andrew Tates, but will not make Charlie Kirk’s.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: we don’t want Andrew Tates. We want Charlie Kirk’s, right? We want, we want men who are committed to their families. They’re loyal to their, uh, loyal to their, their fundamental ecclesial commitments. And it’s remarkable that a man like the Charlie Kirk, who, who traveled on a, on a remark at a remarkable pace, was always in contact, always texting his pastor, seeking for wisdom.

And I think in scenarios like the one you mentioned, where you have established these kinds of principles of, of warfare, these principles of training and these principles of equipping I think we need in, in a, in let’s say a church of a hundred, we need probably seven to eight Nathans as a way of stirring these young men as a way of, of, of bringing them along and saying, it seems to me that you don’t have much of a purpose. Come work with me for a day. Come spend a day with me. Let’s do this Saturday here. And you know, I [00:27:00] I, I, I use this illustration. In a couple of occasions in the past, but I have the luxury of preaching from a pulpit every Sunday. It’s, it’s raised, it’s in the platform, which means I get to see 400 plus members, right?

And pastors have incredible view of their congregations. And we’re singing through these great psalms. Psalm one 10, you know, Psalm 1 48, Psalm 98, all these great psalms and hymns. sometimes I will see a young man in the congregation who’s sort of mumbling his way through the liturgy. And because I’ve been here for a long time, I can do this.

I don’t recommend it to everybody. But usually after the service, I walk up to these young men and I look at them and say, um, are you deathly ill? Something very, very wrong with you. They would say, well, no, no, pastor breed. I’m just fine. it seemed to me that if you knew that you were worshiping in the company of angels, in archangels and all the company of heaven, and in the presence of the holy and triune God, [00:28:00] be alert, aware, and awaken to the holiness that is enfolding this place. And that would change the way you would move your lips. It would change the way you would sing. Now, I don’t go into all these intricate details, but I, I sort of give a quick exhortation and it, initially they think it’s humorous, but in the past I’ve also noted that they’ve come back to me and say, you know, that thing you said to me after the service, you’re right. was distracted. I wasn’t prepared. And I think that’s the parallel we have to use. There are many men who are distracted, unprepared, and don’t think they have to be equipped until they realize that the stakes are far, far higher than they’ve ever imagined.

Nathan: I, I guess one of the things I would say, I’ve heard men say, I’m listening, I’m awake. Uh, but if I added my voice, uh, it wouldn’t be the same. Because I don’t know how to sing or, you know, um, and, and I am by far the most musically weak in our family. My wife is our church [00:29:00] pianist, and my children have been in children’s choir since, you know, my, my son was nine months old when we came to our current church, and we’ve been there ever since.

And he’s been in children, they’ve all been in children’s choir. They moving into men’s choir. And, and, uh, at the Psalm sing, I had to do a solo, uh, because we were singing, uh, the different parts and there were seven verses. And it got to the point where it was an awkward pause and it’s like, well, you know, if I can’t jump in and take this part, my son’s right here, he is already singing apart.

What’s he gonna think of me? And uh, and I tried to kind of work under, under my breath as we were the, the, I was verse six, thankfully. So I got five verses to try to just slightly under my breath, try to hit each note with these men that are better than me. And then. Go for full tilt. I don’t think it, it sounded as bad as I, I expected it.

Um, but there, there was just, it’s the same, um, thing that I had to work through with physical things, uh, the spiritual things and to go [00:30:00] for it. ’cause you also know if you sing timidly or quietly and, um, are insecure about it, it’s a certain, almost certainly gonna sound worse than if you gave it your all.

Um, so, but, but what would you say, I guess to, to men that are there?

Uri Brito: I I, I love, I love that, that example there. And I, I’m so grateful to hear you, you say that you, you press on nevertheless, you know, and I think that’s the, the reality is that had men, we have, we’ve literally had families join our congregation because they said, we want our boys to see what masculine singing sounds like.

Nathan: Mm.

Uri Brito: And they came from, from particular congregations where, where the singing was very effeminate or even that they started to pitch too high. unfortunately, there are some hymns, uh, some hymnals that, are, are, that put in, in particular places only to be fitting for women to sing. And that is a, that’s a travesty in my

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: a true travesty. But the solution here [00:31:00] is not, not to sing. The solution here is to, to find a, a body of men in the congregation who do sing. And so if you are not particularly prone to loud singing. Find someone in the congregation who sings loudly, I have many people who really enjoy singing next to certain men in our church ’cause they know they sing loudly and that helps tremendously.

So this is the same principle again, when Ephesians and collage and say, one another by singing Psalms and hymns and spirit songs. There’s no qualification. It doesn’t say unless you’re a, a gifted soprano or an alto, none of that. simply means that you have to encourage one another and part of that process means incorporating yourself into the church.

Now it’s easier to do that in the larger church like mine in smaller congregations. You gotta be more, more thoughtful, however. Lemme put a plug here for the Sing Your Part app, which is a wonderful app. Uh, what I try to do is I try to send my congregation our hymns by Wednesday, way those who don’t think they sing well [00:32:00] can look at the Sing Your Part app that our church adopts and they can listen to those songs 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 times familiarize themselves with the tune. And so we also have seasons of practices, and I have learned over the years that everyone who have thought that they don’t sing well are delighted to be in the church that delights in singing. And so, because that adds an encouragement to them. And I think in seasons, circling back to our conversation on the, the Kirk death, I think in seasons where the church weeps and grieves, God has given us Psalms to sing Psalms of lament psalms that express precisely the mood we have.

And that also should be a response of God’s people in such a time as this.

Nathan: You can set that up as a church, right, too, and have, uh, share, share stuff via that. There’s some pretty cool, um, corporate features for that I think as well.

Uri Brito: [00:33:00] Yeah, exactly. I’m a, I’m a big fan of it and I know all the guys who put the app together. I think they’re doing a great work. And you can learn every single part as well. It can work through parts. So if you think you’re, you sing a little bit too low or too high, well there’s also an alto or bass, uh, there is, uh, soprano.

You, you can learn your part that’s gonna be there. And that’s one of the great benefits I think of, um, of AI technology.

Nathan: Hmm. Yeah. And, and, uh, the Philistines are still wearing their masks in their car, and you can be singing God’s word as you’re in your car. Uh, and nobody has to know.

Uri Brito: precisely right. That’s exactly right.

Nathan: Um, I think one of the things that’s significant that kind of came to me, that jotted down, um, I haven’t seen, I don’t know if you have, I haven’t seen a, a single post in the wake of this that was, uh, going after Charlie Kirk’s position on baptism or.

His position on the table or, you know, denominationally that, and [00:34:00] I’m sure you probably have seen some of it because of your vantage point on the culture, but I, I, I, I, I consume a decent amount, uh, of media to try to keep my finger on the pulse and to offer, you know, what I’m thinking through. And I didn’t see a lot of that, you know, and that’s, uh.

Just not to make light of it. ’cause I’ve, I’ve had es Anthony Lin on my podcast, you know, and we discussed, um, and I asked him specifically how Catholics and Protestants are supposed to get along, you know, and, and so, and I’ve had a friend tell me, you know, IIII can make fun of the Navy. I already did, you know, and I,

Uri Brito: Yeah.

Nathan: you know, the, the, uh, I will never, uh, think of them as the same level as me, tactically, spiritually, whatever.

There’s just a general mental capacity that they don’t have if they join the Navy that somebody in my position has saying facetiously, obviously. Uh, [00:35:00] so we can banter. I mean, we can have, if I’m in the room, if I go to these, you know, fight Laies conference or whatever, and the Marine says something and I go at ’em.

For being a Marine, it does not bother him. And he’s actually excited. He’s like, okay, finally, I’m another dude. We’re gonna lock antlers. We’re gonna go at it. And, uh, I, when a similar thing happens, the nomination, but specifically online, I think it happens in person, but with, with the blogs and with the podcast, when a, and it’s often not done playfully.

Um, but I know we need the Navy and the Marines and the Air Force and even the Coast Guard, like there’s a place for those guys. As weird as they are, you know, um, we need all these people and, and have seen in the real physical sense how our nation employs these different capabilities [00:36:00] to get, you know, effective, complete missions, um, you know, and things like that.

And so I, I guess. As I look at the church and as I interview pastors and things like that, I, um, I came from a home church unchurched kind of background. My dad was not involved in a, a church. He got, uh, asked to leave a PCA church when I was a junior in high school ’cause he was making trouble. And I, I’ve seen him lock, uh, in, in maybe not a Christian way, horns with men at our dinner table and, you know, they become heated.

Um, I, I guess I would say is, you know, what do, what do you think about that and how do you think we, um, with the current mediums, um, can, should be conducting ourselves? Because I, I, uh, um, I, I have, you know, sat with a lot of these pastors throughout and I know their heart. I’ve, I’ve been with their people in person

Uri Brito: Yeah.

Nathan: I [00:37:00] don’t wanna fight with any of them.

Specifically online. And I want to build coalitions with them. And I say, you know, they’re mutilating babies in the womb and chemically castrating children all over the place. And we’re talking and we’re fighting and putting a lot of energy into these things that are, are, do matter. Like you said, they form, they’re, they’re worship, they form us.

But, but how do we, you know, build coalitions like Charlie did. Um, ’cause that’s, I guess where I wanna see, I want to see coalitions being built. I wanna see common ground being established. I wanna see bread being broken in our homes, um, with each other and dissolving these things in maybe smaller groups than on the internet, you know, and that’s what, uh, Anthony Lon said.

He’s like, we’re not gonna solve this stuff, uh, on a podcast. You know, like, we’re not gonna, it’s this is, these are, there’s a reason why they are still things. That, that very [00:38:00] learned men cannot agree on, you know, and, and, and fight about. So I guess that what, what some feedback, uh, on that.

Uri Brito: Yeah. Great, great stuff. I could talk for a long time on that issue. That, let me, let me propose two categories that I’ve used in the past, Nathan. category of poet and the category of practitioner. and practitioners. Poets are generally, they’re, they’re the philosophers. They’re the, the gals, the, the pipe smokers, right.

I wrote in my book on, on the pipe smoking that those are kind of the poets. they want to think carefully through things and they want to. things. we have these men,

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: we refer ’em in various ways. They’re, they’re nerds, they’re um, they’re, they’re thinkers. They’re professorial. And I don’t think necessarily, these are all bad things. I think they’re, they’re good things. We need poets. We need poets. the other hand, we have

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: And you strike me as a practitioner, [00:39:00] you know, very thorough. And these are good things. But we can’t all be practitioners because somebody has to lay down the philosophy to, to guide our practice.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: If we don’t have poets writing our, the philosophy to guide our practice, we’re gonna be revolutionaries, we’re gonna get in trouble, we’re gonna go to prison, and we need these kinds of things. So I always tell these two kinds of people, and they’re very easy to, I’ve been a pastor for a long time, and, but I’m sure because of your skills as well, somebody in the military who knows, um, who, who has dealt with men, they’re very easy to identify probably within five minutes of a conversation.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: Pretty user identifying

Nathan: might be able to identify them without the conversation by their physical makeup as well.

Uri Brito: Yeah, I

Nathan: Going out on a limb here.

Uri Brito: Yeah, no, that’s very true. And really you want to encourage them to be, you know, 10% more like the other, more like each other.

Nathan: Yeah.

Uri Brito: there’s a, there’s a, a truth to that sort of premise. And uh, and I [00:40:00] think a lot of the men who are sort of more thinking through what happened in the Charlie Kirk situation need to gain some wisdom from the practitioners

Nathan: Mm.

Uri Brito: who are saying, I gotta do something, you know, gimme liberty or gimme death.

You know,

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: there, there’s a danger and reactionary, and I’m concerned that these guys are going to do very foolish things. Um, an example of, and so they need to learn a little bit more from the poets as well, and which means there is an art to contemplation. Bible says there’s, there’s a season for everything.

Please ask these three. if you think. season’s a season for warfare. Uh, you’re gonna wear yourself out and you will lose your family very early

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: So that’s, that’s the first thing to keep in mind. But the, but the second element to keep in mind is that we we’re, uh, this has been, this is somewhat personal to me ’cause I’ve experienced this now in the last couple years of pastor here, there are a lot of, of Twitter conversions taking place, right? Protestant men who [00:41:00] understand their Protestantism are listening to Jay Dyer, for example, are being swayed and drawn into matic language that says, if you are not in the Orthodox Church, you’re not in the true and only church. men who are not equipped and who are not guided or rooted the bait.

And that’s what, that’s what it’s, these are baits. And so my, my premise as I have been on Twitter probably since 2004, I believe so 21 years now at some level or another. And on Facebook since, you know, 2001, I think. And I think my, my premise has been to write, I ironically, in a way that draws people in. And for every four ironic posts have one that hits people, that challenges people, that confronts people. I think that’s, that’s the balance I have found in my,

Nathan: Can you give a definition [00:42:00] for the practitioner of Irenic?

Uri Brito: Yeah. For, for the, and I think that that simply means that you, you state your position with as much, uh, with, with as much boldness as you can, but you don’t treat it as if this is life or death. So you can talk about baptism and state it in a way that’s bold, affirmative. But you don’t challenge the salvation of Credo Baptist, for example, right? Uh, but I think there are times in situations like this where I’m gonna write a post, where I’m going to say, these are the things that you’re missing out when your children are not in worship with you on Sunday morning.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: These are things you’re missing out when you think that discipleship begins at the age of 12 at a public profession of faith.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: So there are situations where I’m going to address these things and I, I don’t know, actually, I don’t know where I follow these categories. There are days where I, you know, I, I love poetry, but I also, but my heart is always in the practice, primarily because I was trained by Professor John [00:43:00] Frame, who literally defined theology as the application of the word of God to all areas of life. Uh, frame actually said, Nathan, that there is no such thing as theology unless it is applied, which I think is just, uh, fascinating, uh, to contemplate. And, but these are, these are a couple thoughts I think to keep in mind is that the social media will always be a great and fruitful endeavor. And I encourage virtually everyone with maybe some few exceptions, virtually everyone to be a part of it. But what I would do pastorally, if they would seek my counsel, because I have no interest in, in shepherding people’s tweets, right? Um, I, I just don’t have the,

Nathan: Bandwidth.

Uri Brito: don’t have the, bandwidth. I don’t have the stamina or the bandwidth, what I typically say is, you wanna get on, in line.

I encourage you to do so. Um, let’s, let’s contemplate your online presence in three to six months down the road. then let me give you some wisdom in how better to sort of cultivate, um, this, this healthy theological impulse or practical impulse that you have [00:44:00] so that you don’t sound like an idiot in everything you post.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: I think that’s, that’s where shepherding has to begin. Let these guys go out and do their thing. Encourage them, stir them. put too many hindrances, but then three, six months down the road, bring them over for a beer, a cigar, and say, Hey, listen, what do you think about the way you’re posting your interaction with Sister Susie down the road? you treat an elderly lady that way? Should you treat an an a, a godly wise father the way you have treated him? Would you say these things to him face to face?

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: translate? And so, just, just some general sort of pastoral thoughts to

Nathan: Or have you thought of inviting them over and saying it, you know,

Uri Brito: Hmm,

Nathan: there’s gonna be a different, I have, um, have several times almost, um, like called up a couple people duking it out online and say, I’ll provide the venue. Like, I have a mansion in Pinehurst. It’s, it’s great. I want everybody to come in here and, [00:45:00] and we will not talk about any of these issues until we’ve had three meals together.

And so we’ve sat around the fire, so we’ve had an opportunity to share about what the Lord is doing in our families, where we are locally. And, and I go back to that Abraham Lincoln quote, I don’t like the guy, I don’t like the man. I must get to know him better. Um, and, and I feel like that is, that is in a sense of what the podcast realm is doing, is giving the opportunity for us to know each other better.

And I see the evil one reducing us down to sound bites because that is how they can, they can create the, the schism in the church, like the warfare that can happen.

Uri Brito: Uh, man, I, I, um, I am absolutely in love with what you said there. I, I love that po I did this with the, remember when Kevin, the young, wrote the Moscow mood uh, as a presiding minister, I, I said, listen, I’ll be happy to go to Moscow. I’ll bring Doug Wilson to Charlotte, [00:46:00] North Carolina, where you pastor, and I’ll moderate a debate here.

I’ll pay for all expenses and all that.

Nathan: Amen.

Uri Brito: And, uh, obviously never took up on that reality, but he really should have, because I think these are things that, um, really need to occur. And there’s something also just something, something tender about putting conversation food.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: everybody’s soul is tenderized when they come into your home,

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: and that allows for fruitfulness in dialogue. And I’ve seen. I’ve seen people change their minds, obviously much more so in those environments that you’re proposing Nathan, than the kind of sort of alistic back and forth that just really people and gives them a greater desire to press on in their wrongness. You

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: they may even be wrong and they may acknowledge that they’re wrong, but by golly they’re not gonna let this one slide, you know.

Nathan: Yeah, I mean, I, I go back to Rosario Butterfield’s testimony [00:47:00] and how long it took to convert her. I mean, it was, I think it was two years, year and a half, two years of dinners and, and even just a, um, a potential, a pastor opening their home up to, uh, somebody in, in the depths of, of sin and in the grasp of the evil one at the time, and setting them free.

Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s, it’s hard to, um, I, I, yeah, you just, it’s hard to not get along with these, and that’s what I see at some of these conferences too. I see a lot of different backgrounds and I can read the poet reacting to, uh, something the practitioner said and being quiet. And I can see the practitioner go crazy and I, you know, I have gone into these situations and ruffled feathers, I guess in, in some of those minds.

I say, I’d rather I’m trying to reach the seven or eight. I’m not trying to reach all of you. Like, this is my moment. I want to try to pull and, and bring, but then learning the wisdom [00:48:00] to do that and, and ongoing. I, I don’t, I I’ve, I’ve modified my social media presence a lot since I first started and, and, and have called Christian Men and gotten feedback about it and been like, why did it land this way?

This is a problem I’m really seeing, you know? And, uh, you know, I mean, I mean, I used to go after, I used to to talk about fat pastors online a lot and, and you may have seen some of it or whatever, but, um, and I see, uh, that being, I guess, you know, this is kind of driving to the point, I guess you talked about the Greek Orthodox.

I, I, I, um. I got tagged, uh, in a, a post on X this morning about a young 22-year-old man that was raised in the nondenom space, has a huge Instagram following. And it was talking about I see the Greek Orthodox as being where I want to go, you know, and, and that his [00:49:00] comment was like, no, we need to listen to these guys.

And that’s how I found out about this guy. So I went to his Instagram and sent him a message and just said, I, ’cause from where I see, I see that these men want the structure. These practitioners understand they don’t get stronger without pushing the barbell against gravity. And they want rigid structure and being told, do these things and this fruit will happen.

And I see liturgically that being, and that’s as a practitioner myself, that’s why I show up every day. That’s why when I didn’t like how my session was handling something in critical moments, I stayed. And because I see as a practitioner, I can have no confidence in my own actions if I’m not under authority.

And if I’m not having these conversations first and foremost with my pastor in my session, um, and, and I [00:50:00] don’t get outlet online and, and these things and I have to bring it under, like, that’s for me, I feel like I saw that, um, respectfully in my father and I wanted to change that, that he didn’t have. And I wanted to put this root in place or this foundation in place for my family.

Um, but I, but I, but at the same time, like we’re, we’re ready to go and we got these guys that are seeing essentially seem like they’re, they’re going from Nondenom and they’re launching into. The Orthodox space and, and they’re, and they’re able to discern maybe, oh, I don’t necessarily like how Catholicism handles these things.

And what is, how do you see, um, I would be, I would be curious to know, even just theologically, doctrinally how you, if you have that young, so, so I guess the rest of the story is he posted a story on his Instagram and said, we’re doing Bible study at [00:51:00] 7:00 AM because I started just look at his, look what’s the fabric of his life.

And I jumped on that Bible study. It was during my weightlifting time today, and I jumped outta the Bible. So he, he has, he’s opening Hebrews 11 and 12 as a 22-year-old, and he’s, he’s got 20 young men that tuned in and, and they’re looking at the word of God. And he literally was going after pornography in their life, you know, as a 22-year-old.

And given a testimony of that, he walked away from. The faith and, and so it’s like practically discipling with the word of God. And, and has the ESV study Bible open, has it shared on the thing he’s walking through? He’s, he’s making the connection of, you know, the Spotless Lamb being tangled in his head, tangled in the thorns, and Abraham Abraham.

And he’s got, like, this dude has got it, you know, and, and he’s, he said he felt like, he just kinda shared, he is like, I’m, he is supposed to be doing this Bible study. [00:52:00] And I, I was just curious, like, I wanna know more about this young man and more about what he’s doing. And obviously God is working through what he’s doing and, but I, and I also have this clip, I don’t know how long ago that got shared on Twitter saying, I see Greek Orthodox.

Um, I know that’s a lot there, but that’s, I guess really the heart of where I’m at with things right now is, is looking at these guys and saying, what, where, what do we do? You know, how do we help them?

Uri Brito: Yeah. I ha I we’re, we’re experiencing a great season of Ritualization and. Part of it is that these congregations have not offered any stability for these young men who are practitioners. want to move, and these congregations are not adding stability. Look, the the last thing you want to do when you are practitioners is to be in an environment that has no order, is to be in an [00:53:00] environment that moves through the law of spontaneity. And I think there’s a real danger in all of that. And I think that’s the, one of the things that will happen is that liturgical bodies are gonna continue to increase in numbers. I mean, Nathan, I think the last 10 families that join our congregation were somewhere between in their twenties and forties.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: just remarkable, These are young people with little children who are looking for stability. They, they’ve been awakened from their malaise, and I think there’s something really powerful to that. But the. The reality, I think, is that what they’re, what they’re finding in places like Eastern Orthodoxy or Catholicism is the mirage of the ancient, the mirage of the ancient. doesn’t truly exist. It doesn’t exist, and it doesn’t provide order. I mean, the prime example of this is, for example, look at Eastern Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy will forever have to contemplate the fruits of their labors.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: Look as an Eastern Orthodox. Look at [00:54:00] what the West has produced with Shakespeare,

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: with Cramer, with Calvin, with Luther, with the Puritans, the Puritan ethic with the United States of America.

In its founding, look at the poetry have produced. The East will have to deal with that question. The Bible says, you are tested by your fruits. You shall know them by your fruits. The West has produced infinitely more. Culturally, sociologically, theologically than the east ever has. at the state of Ukraine, Poland, of Russia. Look at Eastern Europe, or look at Eastern Europe and or, or look at even South American bodies, for example,

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: Where these expressions of Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox are, are, are more Catholicism in in South America, but certainly the east eastern orthodoxy obviously look at their producing socialism, tyranny. And so these things have to [00:55:00] be contemplated. The, again, the mirage of the ancient, it appears from the outside that there’s been this remarkable two millennial stability, but don’t be deceived the beautiful architecture from the outside,

Nathan: That’s immediately where I went is there’s all these, uh, Twitter pages showing that, I mean, that is, that’s fruit in, in a, in a large sense obviously, that that actually transcends logical argument in theology, in, in a way. When you stand in these great churches, something happens that is, is, is not necessarily, uh, amoral, uh.

Uri Brito: No, no. There, there’s a, there’s a sacredness to space that ought to be contemplated. I would also argue that the West has produced the best architecture as well. That, that’s a different question, but I, I think that’s another fruit of the Western tradition as [00:56:00] well. Now, I think, you know, we have, we have our own problems obvious in the West, but look at the fruitfulness of what we have done and look at the fruitfulness of the East for thousands of, for thousands of years, certainly the last 2000 years, and certainly the last 50 years, for example, the. The, the, lack of a, uh, not just the lack of, of societal order, uh, but the lack of any kind of meaningfulness in, in life itself. And so, I’m, I, I want to bring these issues to everybody’s attention because I think Protestantism in the best of what’s Protestant, I think has afforded, uh, young men the, the beauty that they crave, the, the, uh, the, the poetry that they crave, the goodness that they crave, and the truth that they crave. I think these things are all provided, and the, the reality is that many people have never gone beyond, a Chuck Swindoll or beyond the, you know, so we have very much limited in our resources. It’s, it’s incumbent upon us [00:57:00] to provide our people the resources and realize that our great fathers in the Reformation tradition, were not divorced from the Patristics. They built on the patristics. And so whereas there’s a mirage of the ancient, the reformers truly built on the ancient and sought to reform the church in its deepest corruption. And so I think that’s, it’s something to contemplate. There’s a beauty to the reformation and to the Protestant tradition that needs to be reinstilled in the hearts of people.

And it’s true. We need more gifted YouTubers. We, uh, somebody who provides a greater vision of Protestant than Gavin Orland, you know, who does a fine job, but we

Nathan: Amen.

Uri Brito: a, a much richer Protestant tradition than what’s what he’s offering there from a tradition that doesn’t compromise in political matters. So that’s, that’s what I’m saying. And I think these, these, these are appearing, they’re taking place, they’re showing up. uh, this is the season I think the martyrdom of Charlie Kirk, I hope, will stir up [00:58:00] 100 dormant voices to, to get out there and proclaim this, this vision that I’m proposing.

Nathan: Absolutely. So give a, give a playbook then. Um, you know, the, the guy that you said, you said, going back, you said, I think everybody should be on social media with exception to a few people. I, I get that correctly. So there’s some people that you’re like, Hey, I, I’ve watched what you put out. Um, you don’t, you don’t have it.

You know, it’s, it’s different than singing. You should try to sing. Before God. But this is not necessarily something that I, you know, and, and I actually got, um, uh, Larson Hicks told me to, to bring my podcast to the session, and we’ve had people join our church ’cause of the podcast. And that was literally not even in my mind when I started it.

It’s literally what I told you before. How, how can I gain access to these [00:59:00] wiser men that, that I would not ordinarily have. But, um, you know, when I went to my session, I said, Hey, I want you to listen and even break it out. Like listen to this podcast. And, and I literally had to show, I think every single one of ’em how to find a podcast on their phone.

Like, because we have a, a older, wiser session, you know, and I jokingly refer to them as the ends, you know, they like when they finally go to war, it is a reckoning, you know, and, and me as a practitioner, I’m like. We’re gonna lose, you know, come on. And they’re, and they’re just steady, which is why I want to be underneath them.

This is why I wanna stay there, which is why I, I haven’t left, is because I know apart from, from that fellowship that exists in the church, I would be a fool or more of a fool than I already am. And, but I’d say just I give the, the prescriptive, I [01:00:00] guess of, of some of those, like, I, I particularly want to, um, I would love to go back to our church men’s group and says, say all y’all need to go on Twitter and all y’all need, and, and, and maybe a, not a consum, because that’s, I guess the distinctive I make is, are you consuming or producing and setting up practices where you produce something of quality and of value?

Um, and it’s helped my own study of the word, um, this conversation is making me a better man. And, and that practice of trying to produce something of value makes me better. But I want to tell ’em, Hey, everybody, uh, the presiding minister of the CREC says, y’all need to be on Twitter. But I asked him to give you guys a playbook.

So you’re talking to 60 men at our church in Sandhills, and, and, and I’ve talked about what to do. We’ve talked about a lot of in order, I want you to tell ’em about that. Like if, if, if [01:01:00] we’re gonna, if we’re gonna say everyone should be, except for a few exceptions. So maybe how you determine if you’re the exception guy or the, the, the larger group.

And then after that, then what you do, um,

Uri Brito: Yeah,

Nathan: without losing yourself to it, um, without neglecting your family. I mean, my wife definitely, I’ve, I have a practice. I come in, I put my, take my watch off that buzzes. I don’t have any notifications set up on any of those platforms. They don’t get to, to break my conscious thought with a notification.

I set it down on my. The piano in our, our room, and I go back to dinner and I don’t try to touch that again till bedtime or, or whatever, but, um, what you would say to them, um, in the practice of it, not me, I’m, I’m, I’m waxing eloquent here.

Uri Brito: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m gonna have to, I’m gonna have to leave shortly for an adoption ceremony, Nathan, but I’ll, I’ll, let me, let me, lemme rephrase it this way here, um, as my, my closing point here. I think there, there are certain people whose dispositions and [01:02:00] personalities and whose anxieties are so all consuming that I think social media would be the, the final straw that would probably break them.

And I speak from someone who has seen that take place in, in, in the lives of people that I know. And so that’s the first consideration. the second consideration is that there are perhaps poets who do a better job communicating at a, at a one-on-one level, at a congregational level, at a, a face-to-face, at a, at a, um, an in fleshed discourse than they would online, right?

And so these people, what they’re doing in some ways is they are, they’re setting down the guidelines for guys like Nathan. so I think the way I, the way I look at it’s, I think for every, for every poet there ought to be five practitioners. And so. Perhaps your pastor is one of those poets. Perhaps your session is one of those poets, they set the stage down so that they can set their congregants on fire, but they need to be inspired by [01:03:00] something.

Right. Um, practitioners by nature sometimes are, are not the, um, they typically have the ability to sort of write down, um, guidelines and, and, and, you know, so they, they don’t have, by nature the power of inspiration as poets. Right. But sometimes. the poets need to realize that they, they need to be inspired by something because they can’t be inspired by themselves, right? I, I’ve, I’ve met many poems, poets who are who, who struggle reading their own poets, their own poems, whereas other people truly love their poems.

Nathan: Mm-hmm.

Uri Brito: I’ve heard pastors who are fantastic pastors who have a really, really hard time listening to their own sermons. But people love their sermons. And so I think for every poet we have five practitioners.

And sometimes there are poets don’t need to be online, but they need to be saying, Nathan, go forth. My man. Carry on your battle there. Let me encourage you, know, here, here’s, here’s a, here’s a, a text to encourage your [01:04:00] day-to-day the things you’re pursuing. I think those ought to be few and they ought to be selective. There are, uh,

Nathan: So you’re saying the few, the people that are just in the background encouraging need to be few because the proportionate is that they’re actually producing something in four or five others that they’re better gifted for.

Uri Brito: Correct. They’re, they’re in that role of exhortation and inspiration, perhaps, as you said, it might be your role to, take their inspiration and exhortation with their permission and publicize so other people can be encouraged. But I think there’s a, again, there’s a season for, there’s a season for everything in terms of how somebody should go about these kinds of principles. If I had sort of my way of doing things, if you say, okay, I’ve been, I’ve been dormant for a long time. The Charlie Kirk incident has just stirred me. I have listened to brother Nathan. I’ve seen his excitement, his um, motivation, his zeal, his fervor. I’ve seen all these things and I wanna do something [01:05:00] about it. you know. Begin for the first month, just posting Bible verses. Begin through an incremental model. Post Bible verses Post your, your favorite Doug Wilson quote. Um, post a, a clip of something that is meaningful to you. Be, uh, play as as positive a role as possible. then sort of start a strategy. Do things well, if at all possible. Get a good microphone, get a good camera. other words, take your job seriously. don’t need more mediocre Christians on social media. We need Christians who do things well. We talk about beauty. Well, let’s add beauty to what we do. And so prepare yourself. Equip yourself, so put these things in place and then seek the wisdom of at least two men.

I, I would urge two men who have done this for a season and do it well and then seek a kind of, a, kind of accountability, avoid going. Uh, you know, avoid going in this kind [01:06:00] of, uh, express expressive individualism, uh, model and avoid going in a particular journey where it’s you against the world. It’s not you against the world.

You’re not Athanasius, right? It’s not you against the world. It’s you in union with Jesus who has bought a people for himself. It’s you in connection. What you do actually does echo in the, in the, in the corridors and the foyers and the sanctuaries of where you are. You represent your body, you represent your family. So whatever you do, do as unto the Lord, and that includes your social media practice. So there’s some strategic things to keep in place, and I think these are at least ways to begin this conversation.

Nathan: That’s awesome. I got a lot of ideas to go put in practice right from that. You, I’m going

Uri Brito: Lord bless you, my brother.

Nathan: Awesome. Exciting about a baptism. Uh, I appreciate your time and, uh, we’ll continue to be in touch and, and, uh, may the Lord bless and keep [01:07:00] you and your efforts and your family as you continue to do war where he’s placed you. Um, thank you so much.

Uri Brito: You are very welcome. My absolute pleasure and delight to get to know you a little better.

shotgun: Click. Click.

Hey y’all, Nathan here. I, uh, turned this episode around really quick, try to get it out to you, but I wanted to go ahead and say something real quick before we sign off completely. I have been struggling as a construction worker trying to use my background in the military special operations to specifically help.

The church and Christian men right now, um, not with construction, but with some of these things that they may feel under-prepared for, with what would happen in a tragic situation, in a kinetic situation in your church, in your school, in your home, that you’re not really ready for. You know, deep down as the Charlie Kirk things happen, as, as the situation seems to get worse, you’re not really sure what to do.

And where to [01:08:00] go And, uh, I would maybe first and foremost say you should move here and join our church in Southern Pines, North Carolina. But I’m also trying to use some of these digital tools and media and carve out time in my day to build what is needed to equip the church. Um, at this point hasn’t paid better than construction, so I’m still doing construction, but I have put together some resources and put them underneath the banner of the tactical household.

And so if you go to tactical household.com, I’ll put the link in the bio and, uh, also I’ll put the, the coupon code ’cause I know I have one for Life on target listeners. And I haven’t been doing it very much lately because I’ve been trying to get into our house, but there is my EDCs on there, some Amazon shopping lists, um, some PDF downloads, some gun kit links.

Um, a uh, couple different things about taking dominion over yourself. Access to my private telegram channel where I put out stuff. I’m gonna try to get back to doing [01:09:00] something almost every day on that telegram to my paid people. Um, but yeah, uh, go over to technical household.com. I’m gonna start putting out more stuff.

I actually, last weekend, recorded a basic pistol course. I’m selling that for 25 bucks. But, uh, I’m also. Rolling that into the tactical household covering. So the basic pistol course and at a $25 price point and the tactical household at $150 price point is a tangible way that you, as a listener of the Life On Target Podcast, can support my efforts to continue to produce media that arms and equips Christian men, um, spiritually first and foremost, like we talked about with Pastor Uri Brito, but then.

Actually physically, um, and with some of the skill sets that I have, uh, at a very elite level. So, um, we’re also gonna get some of the men in our church. We’re seeing as our, our church continues to build and prepare locally to meet the [01:10:00] challenges that, um, face us. We’ve been doing range days. We’ve been, we’ve got a lot of people in our church that have, um, background and skill and instruction.

And so we also have a a in-person offering. We’re putting together where people from your church can travel out, can stay at my mansion in Pinehurst, come out to our farm, enjoy meals together, enjoy time around the fire, but then also some time on the range and some time being taught, um, medicine and uh, medical stuff.

From, uh, a, a, a cadre, a rich cadre, members of our church, um, that also have skills in some of these other things that we, we wanna run to the guns as men. And this particular, uh, training is meant to talk about the spiritually, how to spiritually equip, uh, men and their families, but then also the tangible tools they need.

So, um, I’ve been kind of tripping about that on X and, and, uh, Instagram and we’re working through, I’ve had a number of people contact, we have a lot of capacity. [01:11:00] Um, probably could do up to 30 men, um, as early as November. So, um, that’s probably gonna come around a $2,000 price point. I’ve already run this with the cross politic guys out in South Dakota and we’re replicating that with a bunch of the additional stuff that would be provided that were close support, brag.

So, um, opportunity to, uh, you know, you can DM me on any of social media stuff or, um, you know, you’re gonna. Get access to some of these lower price point thing, but then also the premium offering that builds on the basics. And, uh, I’m really want to equip brown belts with this training to go back and, uh, disciple the men at their church.

I want you to come with the blessing of the session. At your church being, uh, somebody who is a, uh, already has dominion over their life at a, at a, uh, a leadership level and is looking to lead the church efforts in some of these different domains. So those are [01:12:00] kind of three tiered offerings. You know, I don’t run a bunch of ads, um, and I put all this stuff out of, of, uh, my own pocket.

And, uh, we lived in a bus for three years because I did it, and that’s why it’s taken me so long to get back to do an episode. So tangibly going and supporting, uh, but I’m, I’m also trying to deliver a, a valuable product to you as well. So those are some three ways that you can support what we’re doing here, and I look forward to seeing some stuff come in, uh, on, uh, the feed as, as we continue to build that community.