In this episode, Nathan Spearing sits down with John Moody—author, homesteader, and mentor to men—to talk about why most of life’s problems for men come down to two things: muscle and money. Drawing from his own experience building businesses, leading a family, and navigating church life, John explains why provision, protection, and leadership require strength and resources. The conversation touches on entrepreneurship, failed opportunities, church resistance to strong men, and why young men today need practical discipleship in economics, fitness, and household management.
Links:
The post we talked about that sparked this episode
Follow John Moody on X and/or Facebook
Nathan's website
[00:00:00] Opening
[00:01:00] The Feminist Trap
[00:03:00] Young Men Want Practical Teaching
[00:04:00] Early Marriage and Missed Business Opportunities
[00:06:00] First Business: Scholarship Consulting
[00:09:00] Second Business: Tutoring
[00:11:00] Plant Your Field Before Building Your House
[00:14:00] Money, Muscle, and Biblical Duties
[00:15:00] Competence Earns Authority
[00:16:00] Pushback in Church Leadership
[00:18:00] Men at the City Gates
[00:19:00] Xenophon’s Oeconomicus and Paul’s Writings
[00:21:00] Closing
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Click. Click.
John Moody: he goes, for the majority of men, most of their problems will be solved by more muscle and more money.
Nathan Spearing: Can say amen. Say
John Moody: ouch. And, and again, you know, are overly spiritualized, gnostic circles, chafe at that. But when you look at the Bible, and, and this is what confuses me, like, but what are men's basic duties?
Their provision, protection and leadership. So what do those duties practically need? Yeah. Well, you need muscle and you need money to do those duties. Like how do you, how can you tell people they have these duties but then kind of riffle your nose up? At the things that make the duties possible. Yeah. How, how do you separate these things?
Dramatic music household.
Nathan Spearing: [00:01:00] Yeah. What's your reflection? You just wrote one on, I actually didn't read the women one, but I know enough about your content to know exactly why it's making everybody mad. Because people are still, even in the church, are still slaves to feminism and, uh, husbands are still hiding out and secretly hoping their wives.
Have Instagram businesses so that they don't have to work so hard, but,
John Moody: oh goodness man. So thought, thoughts on those posts, you know, those, those posts are primarily, well, when I thought of that post, it was driven by a few things. Um, one is just our family's personal experience in churches for the past. Man, 20 years. Uh, and just realizing, uh, [00:02:00] how many churches,
uh, hold on a second. We might have to start this over. Or you can just delete this stuff out.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah, you do that.
John Moody: It's, uh, for me it is, what's that football analogy? It's, you know, fourth quarter
Nathan Spearing: the game is tied.
John Moody: Yeah. On the 50 yard line or something. Yeah. So just all kinds of, all kinds of stuff going on.
Yeah.
Nathan Spearing: I, uh, I, I did a post today on in inflation and the relationship between time and money a little bit. It's already taken off a little bit. It seems like our, uh, our young men in the church are starving [00:03:00] for practical stuff.
John Moody: Yes.
Nathan Spearing: And I just had Yuri on my podcast and he was like, theology if it's not applied is not theology.
That's my paraphrase of it. And uh, and also, you know, this, he was kind of going after guys about waiting till they have a cer they're ready to get married or whatever, but at the same time, like you need to be part of being ready to get married is being able to make, make money.
John Moody: Yeah. Yeah. You know, well, and that, and that's really, you know, at the heart of those posts is when the Lord first saved me.
And then Jessica and I first got married, uh, you know, I was part of Southern Seminary at the time, and Jessica, uh, there's a professor's wife who was doing [00:04:00] a, a woman's discipleship thing. For some of the younger, newly married, about to be moms ladies.
Nathan Spearing: Okay.
John Moody: And the only thing this lady wanted to do though was get together with them and do a bible study.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah.
John Moody: And you know, when I was in seminary, uh, I already had started two different businesses while I was in seminary and none of the older men. I was around firm that they're, you know, they wouldn't necessarily say like, having businesses is bad, but, but they're just like, it's not ministry. It's not preaching the gospel.
Yeah. It's, and so I never built those businesses, you know, a bunch of the skills I now have, I could have acquired those in the early two thousands and. [00:05:00] Had a totally different life, a totally different way to help people. Uh, but you know, just, just this, we have such a dearth of older women who can actually help younger women become good wives and mothers, and we have such a dearth of older men who can help younger men become good providers and protectors and leaders.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah, so, so what were the two businesses that you had?
John Moody: Uh, I had a scholarship business, so, you know, this was hilarious. I was a business finance major in college.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah.
John Moody: And my internship one year was working at my college's foundation. So the foundation at a college is what does a bunch of different things.
But one of the main things it does is oversee the pool of scholarship money. [00:06:00] Okay. And how, and it, it, you know, it oversees the assets that create the money for the scholarships, but then it also awards the scholarships and stuff. Usually, you know, sets a lot of the criteria. Other things, unless like the scholarships are earmarked to a particular department.
But a lot of the general scholarships the foundation works with, you know, who those scholarships are tied to. So I had all this experience with scholarships, uh, going when I went to seminary, um, and it's how I paid for seminary. I was able to go to seminary basically completely free almost. 'cause I hunted down all these scholarships to pay for school.
'cause I didn't have any money.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah.
John Moody: So I was like, and I'm not gonna go into debt. And so Southern had a financial aid office and I saw what they were doing and I'm like, this is an office. I think they [00:07:00] had four people, maybe five people working in their financial aid office. And me being a very young believer and kind of naive, I go to the office and I just offered a help for free.
Um, I'm like, Hey, like I could help. You all do such a better job with this. Like you, you all could probably, yeah. You saw
Nathan Spearing: inefficiencies and things that you knew immediately how to optimize
John Moody: Well, and I was just like, you all could probably be bringing in five times the amount of scholarship money to the school.
I if you just helped, you know, if you identified more scholarship, you know, if, if you basically were like truly running a financial aid office. Yeah. Um, and I met with the head of it and stuff. We talked and never hear anything back. And so one of my professors, he's just like, he is like, you can just do this as a little side business.
You can privately help students who want your help [00:08:00] to get scholarships and you, you could do it on a finder fee only. So they don't pay anything upfront. They only have to pay you when they actually get a scholarship. And, and your work pays. And he goes, that really puts the ball in your court, um, you know, to, to actually get them good leads, make sure you're only working with good students and stuff.
Um, so I had that business for a number of years though. But man, that business was also an eyeopener that quite a few guys, I got them scholarships and stuff. When it finally came time to pay a number of them, all of a sudden were really unhappy about the contract we signed.
Nathan Spearing: Oh yeah. That's very, uh, typical of people,
John Moody: you know, and that was also a bit of an eye-opener 'cause people were like, well, how is it fair that you're getting.
25% of my first [00:09:00] year scholarship. And I said, because that's all I get. I don't get any, there's no residuals on this. You know, I did all my work up front. I don't wanna be responsible for if in a year or two you fail to turn in your renewal paperwork. And I don't wanna be a collections agent for the next three or four years.
Uh, that's one
Nathan Spearing: reasons why. Uh, charging up front in the construction side where typically it's, you know, 50% and then 50% when we finish. And, and, and I just basically was like, I, I have had people not on our contracts and I've built a brand now on a reputation where I just say, Hey, you know, we'll, we'll show up when we have the money.
We'll do it right. And you know, it's just, it's just, it's worked so far and sometimes we gotta make little concessions here and there, but [00:10:00] by and large, I don't end up waiting on money anymore.
John Moody: Yeah. Yep. Well, and that's, you know, the buying club I founded as well, that was a fundamental problem there. Was that the other
Nathan Spearing: business during seminary?
No, the other
John Moody: business I did during seminary was a tutoring business. Okay.
Nathan Spearing: So what would you have said, like you're saying there's a dearth of men, and if you would've gotten advice, like what would you have said, what would you have, what would, if you could go back to John Moody in seminary with these two side hustles trying to go through, like what would you, being the older man now trying to put stuff out and help people, what would you tell you specifically in that time?
Oh,
John Moody: I'd, I, I'd tell me to go through seminary slower and build the businesses. First, first thoroughly knock out your duty of provision, or as Proverbs put it, you know, before you build your house, plant your [00:11:00] field.
Nathan Spearing: Okay? So, so you, you basically are saying the degree you're getting was priority for you and you wish you would've prior, maybe still tried to get the degree, but.
But taken longer and made more money upfront. Focusing on, yeah, focusing on those two businesses, or would you like, or, oh, yeah. I
John Moody: mean, both of those businesses had a lot of upside potential. You know, I, I could have began, you know, and this was the challenge, one reason I didn't do it is like the tutoring business.
Um, I got to the point where I could not take on any more students. So if I wanted to grow that business at that point, I would've had to develop the new skillset of managing and bringing on more people. And because I was more than full-time in [00:12:00] seminary, uh, you know, I was also a Garrett Fellow for a professor, uh, which basically means I was like the professor's assistant.
And then I was getting ready to do PhD work. It, it just, you know, I was just like, man, this is gonna be such a pain. Try and hire people, do this and that, expand the business. But so had somebody said to me, Hey man, you, you can do a, if, you know, imagine if I'd sold a tutoring business back in 2007 for half a million dollars, when half a million dollars was actually meaningful money.
I could have invested that and, you know, paid for a PhD solely out of investment income. Yeah. Passive income, because one of the reasons income to
Nathan Spearing: use the, the buzzwords.
John Moody: Yeah. You know, and, and one of the reasons I didn't do a PhD is instead, you know, I got married in 2005 [00:13:00] and by 2007 we have two kids. And I don't have, I don't have any, I don't have any real assets still.
I don't, I have some money in the bank, but nothing meaningful. And so one of the reasons I didn't do a PhD is I just couldn't biblically justify, you know, because, because I could, I couldn't provide while doing a PhD, 'cause I would've had to work while doing a PhD, which would've effectively widowed my wife.
For, you know, four or five years while I'm getting some additional letters behind my name. Yeah. And you know, I think it's Chris Willis is his name. He, he's like a pretty popular podcast Instagram guy. But he said something a number of years ago I saw where, and, and a lot of people in our circles would be like, this is so unbiblical.
I'm just [00:14:00] like, this dude is so right on the money, but he is speaking to men. He goes, he goes, for the majority of men, most of their problems will be solved by more muscle and more money.
Nathan Spearing: Can say amen. Say
John Moody: ouch. And, and again, you know, are overly spiritualized, gnostic circles, chafe at that. But when you look at the Bible, and, and this is what confuses me, like, but what are men's basic duties?
Their provision, protection and leadership. So what do those duties practically need? Yeah. Well, you need muscle and you need money to do those duties. Like how do you, how can you tell people they have these duties but then kind of riffle your nose up? At the things that make the duties possible. Yeah. How, how do you separate these things?
I don't get well in
Nathan Spearing: our hyper spiritualized, gnostic [00:15:00] culture, um, kind of sets up this false dichotomy like you have to choose between physical strength and money and spiritual knowledge and wisdom, you know? Yeah. And, and, and like there, like it's not actually wise to tell somebody how to provide, it's actually taking him away from his, you know, great commission challenge, but you know, who's being listened to.
And who can speak with authority are people that demonstrate competence. And so happens a lot of these guys are not Christians these days.
John Moody: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I think Wiley and others have talked about people go to church for mediocrity, not for manliness or excellence. Hmm.
Nathan Spearing: And in my experience, the wife makes, uh, makes you move churches.
If there's too much manliness that is also calling her, you know, to, to submit and listen to him, [00:16:00] you know?
John Moody: Yeah, yeah. Well, and yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things, um, you know, I guess I'll tell this story, but you know, so in the late two thousands I started this buying club business and it started to grow like wildfire.
And we were also part of a good church at the time. And so I, uh, I was nominated by a few people who knew me to become an elder, which I knew 'cause they told me. And the church repeatedly blocked even considering me becoming an elder. One of the elders told me it's because I was too influential already.
Like the, the word the elder said to me was, is I create such a big wake like a boat. You know, the wake from a boat passing through. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Nathan Spearing: for sure.
John Moody: And [00:17:00] uh, you know, at the time I found that utterly crushing. 'cause I'm just like, why? Why is it a bad thing? I'm successful at what I do and I care about it and it's helping people.
Nathan Spearing: Would it, would, would it be there? Um, maybe the why the PCA is really scared of Michael Foster right now.
John Moody: Because, well, well, the reason they're scared of Foster is because he's not even just a flashlight on the cockroaches. He is. He is. The Chicago Bears football stadium lighting, yes. On Friday night.
Nathan Spearing: Yeah.
Well, I guess that would be like, that dovetails into like you have influence, you have, uh, competency. And if we. Uh, if we, um, if we, if we, we start trying to control you, you, you won't, if we're, if you're a cockroach, [00:18:00] then we can't control you. 'cause you'll put light on me and I don't like that.
John Moody: Yeah. So yeah, so those were the, those were the businesses, uh, that, you know, and I, uh, you know, if I was talking to young men now, especially young men who have a heart for ministry or wanna be able to serve, and, and this is where then, you know, I had another decade or two a Bible study under my belt, and you begin to realize like, who, who in the Old Testament.
Are the men who get to hang out at the city gate. The elders of the people. They're, they are the, you know, I, I once said it offended a lot of people on social media, but they were the four hour work week men of that day. You know, you, you. Um, it's, and it's because they had time
Nathan Spearing: to sit around [00:19:00] while their estates made them money.
John Moody: Exactly.
Nathan Spearing: And you actually wanted to listen to what they said because they actually had stuff that worked, uh Oh, yeah. While they were being wise.
John Moody: Yeah. Um, you know, the, the, the word used of like David's Mighty Men and Boaz and some of these other guys in the Old Testament. That word especially refers to, uh, financial success.
It, it, the, the word really focuses on two categories. One category is physical prowess, and one category is financial success, success. Yeah. And you know, you read, uh, Wiley years ago, he's like, everybody should read Xenophon's Os you know, on household, you know, household rule. Yeah. And, and that book is the same thing [00:20:00] that the, they very small book, that book.
Oh yeah. Everybody should read it. Um, but, but who, who is. In that book, Paul uses very similar language at places in his letters to that book. Um, because, you know, the book actually opens with the question, what does it mean to manage a household? Well, and then you have Paul in his one pastoral letter saying, A man must manage his household well.
Um, you know, there there's a number of linguistic and conceptual parallels between. Paul's writing and Xenophon's, which makes sense because Xenophon's book was the book on households for maybe almost a thousand years. Yeah. In, you know, at that time of the time of the world. Um, but, but who's the hero of that book?
He's a dude who crushes it economically. [00:21:00] He, he leads his wife and household well. Hi. His household is very orderly. Then outside the household. Um, and you know, the book talks about he's a guy who keeps himself in good physical condition, but the guy also is an excellent businessman. He's excellent vocationally.
He knows, he knows how to make money, um, so that then he can do good to both his household and his community.
Nathan Spearing: So good.
I actually probably need to jump off 'cause I'm meeting an engineer on a project here in uh, 25 minutes and I gotta hustle two kids 'cause I got two boys that are, they're homeschooling is, uh, riding along with me and doing these repairs. So
John Moody: well have fun today, brother. Lord bless their day. Same to you.
shotgun: Click. Click
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